Conjuring Permission to Rest Feat. Octavia Raheem
You don’t know how much you need
the wisdom of my guest this episode.
I’m so honored to bring you a conversation
with Octavia Raheem, mentor, yoga teacher,
and author of the new book
Pause, Rest, Be: Stillness Practices for Courage in Times of Change.
Subscribe! Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Pandora | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn
Mentioned:
Order your copy of Pause, Rest, Be at pauserestbe.com.
Learn more about Octavia and her work at octaviaraheem.com.
If you need more encouragement to do right by yourself,
check out the Treats Practice in our episode
A Spell for Self-Replenishment.
Make Magic:
Seriously, love, this book is a gem.
Read it in order, or open to any page
and receive the pearl of wisdom contained therein.
I can’t recommend it enough.
Transcript: Conjuring Permission to Rest Feat. Octavia Raheem
Octavia Raheem: Have you ever been to like a butcher, and they have meat on like a big stick, and they just slice the pieces off? And I’m like this is what many women out here are doing, like slice. Here’s that slice. You get that. You know, here’s another slice. You give that. And then we’re down to our bone, and now what is there for us or anyone else at this point, you know?
Natalie Miller: Oh, yes.
Octavia Raheem: And, so, we can’t just keep slicing away at ourselves in the name of whatever. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes. And that’s the place, too, where I want to return to what you said at the very beginning is that the world is not going to give you this permission. We have to claim it.
[Music]
Natalie Miller: Welcome to Mind Witchery. I’m your host, Natalie Miller, and I’m so glad you’re here.
Natalie Miller: Hello, my friend. Welcome to Mind Witchery. Get ready. Just prepare yourself because you are about to receive such wisdom and such inspiration because my guest today is none other than Octavia Raheem. She is a mom. And I love, by the way, Oct…hi, Octavia.
Octavia Raheem: Hi.
Natalie Miller: Hello, you’re here. You’re here. You’re right here.
Octavia Raheem: I’m here. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I love that that is the first thing in your bio, that you are a mother. That’s the first thing in your bio. I love that. So, she’s a mom, she’s an author, she’s a yoga teacher, she’s an activist, and she has just written a new book called Pause, Rest, Be: Stillness Practices for Courage in times of Change. So, welcome, Octavia. I’m so happy that you’re here on the show.
Octavia Raheem: I’m so happy to be here. Thank you.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes. So, I know that you—if you are listening—I know you already know that rest is important. I know you already know that you are doing too much. And I know it’s really, really hard for you to give yourself permission to do that. And that’s why we have an expert, we have a guru of pausing and resting to be here with us today. And, Octavia, that’s what I would love to talk with you about: permission to pause and rest and be.
Octavia Raheem: Yes. You know, the world’s not going to give it to you.
Natalie Miller: Well, that’s right.
Octavia Raheem: [laugh] The world’s not going to give it to women. The world’s not going to give it to Black and Brown folks. The world’s not going to give it to many of us. I’m feeling that people listening are forging new ways and new paths that really link to old or ancient ways, right, something really powerful and connected, and that kind of goes against the grain of how business is or how things work. And the world’s not going to give us permission to pause, rest, and be, and so we have to give it to ourselves. And it gets really complicated though because we live within the world—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: —and we have the conditioning of the world, and we have the expectations that are, you know, familial, generational. But those are all layered in the conditioning, and we have so much of our worthiness wrapped up in what we can do and show and produce, and how far we can go. And I really think part of giving ourselves permission is to start to even more radically define and redefine what success is for ourselves.
Like, for me, success is not—there’s no point. It’s not a point on a graph. I think a lot more these days about how does it feel to be doing whatever I’m doing. [laugh] You know, how does it—what relationship am I in with my work or who I serve or whatever I’m doing. And that’s part of how I give myself permission, is it starts with, well, I’m going to back up a few steps, and give myself permission to let my life really look different from what I learned it should look like or other people’s look like. [laugh] I’m going to back up a few steps, and give myself permission to define reaching the goal, or the goal in terms beyond some metric or data point, right?
Like, I just—one program that I lead is a program called Devoted to Rest, and it is a program specifically for Black and Brown women, self-identified Black and Brown women who are high-achieving and spirit-led to really, literally—like, the promise I give people in that program is you’ll rest, and something will awaken within you. And it’s amazing to me that people show up for this.
And I led, you know, I launched it. The first weekend of it was this past weekend. And the entire time I’m with this group of women, I’m thinking this is life-giving. This is life-giving. I feel so energized by this. I feel so [laugh] fueled by this. This feels how I want my life to feel [laugh], you know, and [laugh]—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: And I think that—I don’t know if that makes any sense [laugh] to anyone. But, for me, I think, sometimes, we’re just doing all the things, and not even checking in with ourselves. Like, well, how does this feel to me? Like, how does—?
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: Am I receiving as I’m giving?
Natalie Miller: You know, Octavia, like, I think listeners of this podcast are familiar with that question—how do I want this to feel?—and are, you know, thinking about things in qualitative ways rather than quantitative. Because I think that we are trained, we’re conditioned to think, “When I’m making six figures, then—then—I will be happy. When I have this many clients, when I have this house, when this program is full”—right?
We think about it in terms of like the external, like, what are the features and what are the numbers of my life? That’s what we’re trained to do. But that piece of what’s the qualitative aspect, how does it feel, what are the vibes, what’s the energy in this, that is so crucial. And I’m with you. That’s essential to success.
I’m sure you’ve heard this. People who are like—they get to the place where they’re making the amount of money that they want to make, or they have the job that they wanted, and they’re, like, looking around, like, “Where’s my happiness? [laugh] Like, I got the external thing, but I’m stressed. I’m tired. I’m anxious all the time.” Right? Like, the external, the quantitative pieces, the boxes are checked, but it’s like it doesn’t feel good. So, I love that you’re bringing our awareness to that; that, like, first and foremost, we need this redefinition of what it is even that you really want.
Octavia Raheem: And like self-trust, we don’t trust, like, this metric of it feels like this to me. [laugh] That same conditioning that has us thinking like, “I can’t rest or I have to earn rest,” which—sidenote—rest is a birthright [laugh], right. Just like I’m inhaling and exhaling, I don’t have to ask you, I don’t have to ask anyone to breathe, you know. And, thank goodness, it’s actually involuntary because rest isn’t involuntary.
Natalie Miller: Right.
Octavia Raheem: We have to choose it and we have to be deliberate and intentional about it. And then we forget that this thing is a birthright, and we are convinced we have to earn it, you know? Like, it’s like the carrot we dangle out in front of us that we never quite get to. But I think the same forces that we—that cause us to not trust, that we can’t give ourselves permission to rest, we also stop trusting that that’s movement from inner to outer versus outer to inner, you know.
And, really, what I’ve done in my own life is play with both of those ways of attaining and moving just, you know, there’s the Scripture in the Christian Bible that’s basically test the spirit by the spirit. [laugh] So, I test, like, what is the impact of constantly being on the externalized train of when I get this, when I do that?
And then I also test—and I’ll be honest. Like, it’s felt risky when I’m like, you know what, I’m going to start from feeling vibration from energy, from desire, and then deep from the inside, and then move outward. And I have to tell you starting from the inner to outward has not failed me [laugh], has been so much more rich and fruitful and affirming to my being than other ways of moving.
Natalie Miller: I am so with you. And I think, right, that’s partly why The Man, the patriarchy, capitalism, right, the patriarchy, capitalism, white dominance, like, all of it, right, really doesn’t want us to check in because there is so much power there. It’s like ah. But if you actually care more about how you look than how you feel, that’s really going to work out for us. If you really care more about, like, checking the boxes of success—OK, I got my degree, I got my family, I got my 2.5 kids, you know—checking the boxes—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —rather than, as you said, being internally motivated and guided, well, then, I stay in the boxes that have been created for me, you know. Oh, my gosh, let’s dive into this book, if you don’t mind, Octavia.
Octavia Raheem: OK.
Natalie Miller: I would love for you—like, even the first lines of the introduction knocked me out. So, if you don’t mind reading just this little piece of the introduction, people can get a sense of your—the gorgeousness of your prose.
Octavia Raheem: Thank you so much. “So, in many ways, I’ve been front-lining my life the last few years. I’ve been in the trenches of my own being. I’ve charged ahead over many landscapes and vast fields, the field of endings, and the confusion and clinging that often accompanies them, the landscape of new beginnings, and the uncertainty, and excitement that come along with them. I’ve rushed through and forced something—anything—to be next.
“I also lingered at that place in between—that liminal space—that point that is not an end or a beginning. It’s the edge of both. So much of it felt like a battle. I’ve yielded a formidable sword against it all. I’ve been a devoted warrior, hoping that every fight strengthens me for my future. I’ve been a dedicated student, trying to trust that, no matter how challenging or painful a lesson is, it transforms into healing wisdom for me.
“I have faced inner and outer enemies who were Goliath. In the face of giants, my five-foot-one self, didn’t back down, or look for an escape. For so long, I’ve relied solely on the trinity of hard work, grit, and relentlessness. This holy trinity has served me well and, at the same time, left me weary and tired. My little slingshot is broken. The handle of my sword is worn. I put down my armor.
“In this place of my own deep exhaustion, I surrender and lay down. There’s a time and place to push, hustle, and grind. I’ve always lived my life in that way and from that place. Perhaps you have too. Yet, here I am in a new place. To access the wisdom needed now, I must be still. A movement is coming and, first, we must be still.”
Natalie Miller: What I love here so much is just this recognition that that holy, unholy [laugh], both, trinity—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —of hard work, grit, and relentlessness, it is in some ways necessary, especially if you are traversing this world as a disenfranchised person, right? Like, I don’t want to be so simplistic as to say like, “Never mind that, everyone. Let’s have a kombucha, and pretend [laugh], you know, that that’s not a thing.” It is a thing.
And I love how you say “and yet,” right? Yes, yes, it served me in some ways, and yet, now is not the time for that because I—I don’t know about you with your clients and students, Octavia. But my people are, like, all the slingshots are broken. [laugh] Like, the armor is torn. The fighting letters, they’re all ripped up. And we do, we are in this collective moment of just stop. And yet, stillness can be scary. I’m going to—that’s my confession. Stillness can be scary for me, Octavia.
Octavia Raheem: I know. I know it is. So, I want to honor that, for me, I don’t actually really like the languaging of “grind” especially. I have a different relationship with “hustle” but just because I’m a hip-hop head. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: But I use it because I know people understand that language. And, you know, a thing I think about a lot is, like, work isn’t the enemy. Rest isn’t the perennial friend. It is, for me, it’s both, and how can we have a more harmonious relationship with both? And living with the reality or I’m responding to the reality that most of us hyper over-privilege work.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: [laugh] And there’s no relationship to the pausing and resting and being. So, that’s really the call here, is how to be more skillful with the both. And, I mean, if we look out in nature, there’s winter and summer, people, [laugh] you know, in most places—not all. There’s—the sun rises, and it sets. Like, everything in nature has this kind of, at least, a duality, and these binaries are just kind of hurtful on all these levels.
Natalie Miller: Totally.
Octavia Raheem: And, so, I also want to acknowledge that I think one of Danielle LaPorte’s truth bombs said—this was years ago I came across this—“It takes courage to be still.” You know, and that was when I had really started diving deeper from teaching mostly power vinyasa like flow classes. I started teaching stillness and, of course, my numbers were dwindling. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: But instead of—like, I did get really scared when that started happening because this was like my, you know, my work and my path. And I also recognized how necessary then it was for me to actually be teaching what I was teaching [laugh], right, since it wasn’t hyper-popularized, you know. And when I asked people who came to other things I taught, “Well, why aren’t you coming to the yin or the still-based classes?” they were like, “Oh, that shit’s scary.” [laugh]
Natalie Miller: That shit is scary, it is.
Octavia Raheem: [laugh] You know.
Natalie Miller: It is.
Octavia Raheem: You know, and I know because, like, I have a—you know, I have to ask people the question, “What is your relationship to rest?” And my personal answer is my relationship is that of teacher to student. Rest is one of my greatest teachers, and it is. In rest, I’m talking about stillness. I’m talking about the pause. I’m talking about, like, this morning, I went for a walk, and I didn’t listen to anything. I just walked, and heard the—like, in my mind, I’m like I was moving but that was a restful practice.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: And I’m like those practices [laugh] in—I mean, such a clear reflection of where we are and who we are and what’s happening on the inside arise in those moments. And I—and if I don’t want to really be with that, I’m not going to do it, right? So, that’s one thing. But then everyone’s nervous system literally—just like we have very different bodies, right, and like a vegan diet might really be the perfect diet for your way of eating, I’ll say. That’s a better way of nourishing yourself.
You know, for some people, it might be eating bone broth. You know, there’s all these different things. The same thing for your nervous system, right, like, I might require—like, it might really be nourishing and supportive for me to be still and rest for 90 minutes through a practice. And for some people, their threshold’s going to be 10 minutes [laugh], right?
You know, like, just as it takes a kind of practice and conditioning to build muscle, and lift weight, I feel the same about stillness. And when I’m working with someone or resting with someone that’s very new to resting and stillness, I don’t start with let’s be still, because their nervous system is likely—it’s going to register as a red flag. [laugh] It might create more anxiety versus less, you know. And, so, what I really teach a lot now when I’m working with someone one-to-one or in the small groups is some movement at normal pace. Then we start to slow down.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: Then we start to slow down even more. And then we get to stillness but in that stillness, the guidance I’m going to give first is, once we get really still, notice the movement of your breath because that’s still like a very tangible, concrete movement. And, so, that’s just to honor [laugh] that stillness is like—I don’t say it flippantly, like, it’s just easy; just be still. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Right. You know, there’s a metaphor that I use a lot with my clients because I have to—well, (a)—oh, my gosh, there’s just so much to respond to in what you just said. So, (a) I will say, this concept of an active rest, like you said, taking a walk but without anything stimulating you, without—
Octavia Raheem: Yeah, that’s right.
Natalie Miller: —any podcast or music in your ears, right? Or, for me, sitting by the fire, and knitting.
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: I’m just knitting. I’m doing like a repetitive—I’m doing a pattern. Like, it’s just a way of kind of—there’s something happening and, at the same time, I—my mind is kind of expanding and relaxing. So, (a) thank you for that reminder that active rest is a thing. And then (b) a metaphor that I use a lot that I wonder if you’ll like this, back when I was a yoga teacher—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —once upon a time, was that, you know, if you are hurtling through life with your meetings and your appointments and your projects and your goals and your kids and your house and all the things, right, you’re like a jet plane. And, you know, think about when a jet plane lands, when you touch down, it’s like [goonk] in your system, right.
And then there’s that like—you’re thrown back in your seat as the jet plane slows down. And it’s almost like the faster you’ve been going, the more you’ve been doing, the more like dramatic that feeling of becoming still is going to be, and like the longer runway you’re going to need into it. What do you think? Do you like that metaphor?
Octavia Raheem: That’s perfect. I think that is very—that’s perfect. That’s it. I really appreciate that you said it’s scary to be still. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: You know, like, we have to build that capacity just like any other capacity. And one of my restorative yoga teachers—I call her my yoga mama—Dr. Gail Parker always says just because we’re doing nothing doesn’t mean nothing’s happening, you know. And especially on the inside when we really—it’s not an active still…it’s not an active rest. But when we do those practices like meditate or I teach yoga nidra, right, the sleep of the yogi, like those kind of things, something’s happening on the inside.
Natalie Miller: Oh, my gosh.
Octavia Raheem: But we’re not doing anything, right? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes. What I love is I have marked in the book this other page I really wanted to talk about, which goes exactly there. You say, “You may think you are not doing very much at all. All of this shifting from the inside out, all of this adjusting and readjusting to what is, all of this releasing and letting go requires energy. Transformation requires rest.”
Octavia Raheem: Yeah, it requires rest.
Natalie Miller: And I think that, you know, again, when we have that external focus, and it’s like but it’s 2022, and I’m just still here in my house with my mask in my purse. [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Right? Like, I’m still doing Zooms. I’m still—you know, it doesn’t feel like sometimes much is happening. But all of the change—
Octavia Raheem: So much.
Natalie Miller: —all of the change that we’ve had to—and it keeps coming in waves—that we’ve had to accommodate, like, it’s enormous.
Octavia Raheem: It’s enormous, like, as an understatement, right? I think if most people pause, and just, if they are in a space to do this mentally, just a snapshot look back to March 2020, and who they were, where they—what they look like, what they thought the next three years were going to look like, and then if you look back, you take a moment and look back there, and then you just like look down and around at your current reality, and then inside, just feel this, like you’re radically different.
Natalie Miller: You’re radically different.
Octavia Raheem: You know, like, for me, I don’t live in the same place. I don’t do—my [laugh] work is radically different.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: There are people so—I’ve lost so many people in my life, you know, and it’s like—and, unfortunately, my experience is not atypical of this time.
Natalie Miller: No.
Octavia Raheem: Right? And I think that—and even what I find as a practitioner is working primarily virtually now actually takes more energy.
Natalie Miller: Oh, yeah.
Octavia Raheem: Right? Because you still—like, the way you want to kind of like hold the container, and still find a skillful way to connect, and then just looking at the screen all day. I’m like we are really underestimating what we are expending energetically to—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: —continue through this moment we’re living in.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes. And for those of us who are very sensitive to energy, right, like, we feel [laugh]—I feel my kids’ teachers’ fear of teaching in public schools that are underequipped to handle, like, what’s going on. When I go to the grocery, I feel like [laugh] I can sense into the person in front of me who’s double-masked, and clearly just doesn’t want to be there, right?
And, so, there’s like all of the change, and then we also—I mean, I don’t—you know, again, I want to do an honest accounting here. We don’t have some of the same resources that have been helpful for us. So, like, I don’t know about you but for me, going to a class, a yoga class, like, in a yoga studio, in a space designed for that can be so restful. Trying to do that same thing in my guest room with my pile of tax paperwork [laugh]—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —on the desk [laugh], right, with the screen, and trying to figure out where to put the computer so I can see the teacher, it’s like it’s not the same.
Octavia Raheem: It is not the same, and, you know, it doesn’t have to be because nothing is the same. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: And I—so, the other day, I think it was yesterday, [laugh] I did a yoga class on my little phone on a tripod. My son—it was a snow day. It snowed in Georgia, which is so rare. And my son was in the next room watching, like, me and Martin—because we always celebrate Martin Luther King Day, so we had all these activities. But it was turned up really loud, and he’s like munching on popcorn extremely loud—louder than ever. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: You know. My husband’s over here like listening to some song in his headphones but he’s kind of rapping along too. And I remember just like breathing and doing my practice. And I stopped and I said, wow, what I used to think [laugh] I needed to do a sun salutation or—
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: —do a yoga pose. I just don’t need that anymore. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: And, so, that’s why, you know, like, there’s this way that part of my giving myself permission is take it when I can get it, and then, like, see what’s there for me. And then there are times when I, like, run screaming into a quiet room, lock the door, and go, “Please, leave me alone. I want a quiet practice, right.” You know, and so, it’s like I honor that, you know, and I—and, sometimes, I have sat and thought like, wow, like, faith-based communities, like, I love going to church, and listening to the singing.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: And I’m like, well, I’m not doing that now. And I don’t even necessarily like to look at it streaming, but I will listen to gospel music, you know? And it’s like I conjure a lot of memories, girl [laugh], right, you know? And, so, there’s also this idea of finding ways and making ways and—
Natalie Miller: I want to underscore what you just said because I think, you know, in these conjuring episodes, I love for people to get to go away with, like, OK, here’s a little gem. Here’s something to put in my pocket. And one of the things that I’m really hearing is that, yes, for some of us, rest is scary. It’s that feeling of like landing, and it’s like I don’t know—this is very intense. I don’t know what to do with myself. [laugh] I don’t know what to do, right? So, that what I’m getting is a message from you that it’s a practice—
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —and we have to kind of slowly work up to it. We can’t expect ourselves just to drop into a 90-minute meditation, or even a 90-minute restorative practice. Like, we can find different ways to rest, and that might involve active rest, walking, knitting, cooking. That might involve a quiet room. And that might actually be accessible with one partner rapping, one kid crunching—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —[laugh] and yoga on your phone, right?
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: So, I love that flexibility that you’re bringing to it because I think that, for me, I can definitely be susceptible to this. It’s like what counts? What really counts as rest? Does it count? Does it count if I didn’t do a yoga nidra practice with my legs up the wall? It’s like [laugh], yeah, you know what, you’re knitting did count, you know. You’re hanging out with your girls, and without much purposefulness. That counted, you know.
Octavia Raheem: Yeah. And, you know, I guess a word that came to me—we’re saying “rest” but I’m also thinking about what restores. What is truly restoring? And giving yourself permission, like, that can be really vast.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: And also, like, I’m really into these days something just because, right, like listening to music, and dancing just because—not because it burns calories, and not—for no—like, and for me, restoration—which “rest” is part of that [laugh]—is that which, you know, it’s like just because. Like, it’s—
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: So, it’s going to give back. It’s fueling.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: It’s not depleting.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: Right? And, you know, and I do think we could—some people can put their work in that category. But I would kind of advise people to be really watchful if they—because that might just be the part of their brain that’s like, OK, I’ll do work that way. Like, I’ll make [laugh]—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: —work even more productive by making it, you know, claiming it as restorative or whatever.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes.
Octavia Raheem: You know, and, so, for me, it’s just thinking about do you have—what’s your relationship to things that truly restore you, and that allow you a place to receive, and to not always be giving and giving and giving.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: Ooh, I just thought about how much conditioning women have around giving, and the image that came to myself is like a wom…you know, I don’t know, have you ever been to like a butcher, and they have meat on like a big stick, and they just slice the pieces off? And I’m like this is what many women out here are doing, like slice, here’s that slice. You get that, you know. Here’s another slice. You give that, and then we’re down to our bone, and now what is there for us or anyone else at this point, you know?
Natalie Miller: Oh, yes.
Octavia Raheem: And, so, we can’t just keep slicing away at ourselves in the name of whatever. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes. And that’s the place, too, where I want to return to what you said at the very beginning is that the world is not going to give you this permission. We have to claim it, and we can do that together. We can unite. We can come into community, right? Like, that’s why I have you here on the show. That’s why I’m making a podcast every week because it's like, yes, each of us needs to do this. But, also, together when we shift our thinking, together when we acknowledge what we’re up against, I think it does—it becomes more supported, at least, like that move toward the restorative.
You know, I wanted to touch back on this other piece, Octavia, about the kind of balancing of modes and qualities, right, to sort of say like, OK, so, like, for Natalie, the mode of giving is very easeful. It’s very easy for me to give—until it’s not because it is not so easy for me to receive, right? It’s very easy for me to push because it’s not so easy for me to pause [laugh], right?
And, so, expanding those capacities, and expanding like what are the vibes, what are the qualities, what are the feelings that are available to me? Because if, like, you know, inspired and motivated and active are all very available to me, then those are kind of my go-tos. And, damn it, I want peaceful. I want calm. I want present, just present. I want those to be available too. And I love how you talked about that, how that’s going to take actually its own kind of practice.
Octavia Raheem: It does.
Natalie Miller: All right. So, our friends need to think about how they want to feel, and maybe even expand the range of available feelings [laugh] like—
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —like I’m trying to do. [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: Yes. But, like, really deep, deep desires [laugh], right, like when I—as you’re talking, like, my awareness starts to move into my belly, down to my navel, down below that, like, go deep in. Like, how do I want this space—like, from this energetic space of, like, the cradle of my being—
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: —like down there [laugh] like—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: —like it’s really like a relationship with desire and—
Natalie Miller: Yes. My friend, Kelly Shelton, calls that the Sha-na-na.
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: Down in the Sha-na-na.
Octavia Raheem: Yes, get in the Sha-na-na and go how the fuck do I want to feel? And that is like a really appropriate word [laugh] for the Sha-na-na, right, in this one instance.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: You can edit that if you need to. [laugh] But, like, because—
Natalie Miller: Nothing is edited, yeah, this is it.
Octavia Raheem: OK. OK. OK.
Natalie Miller: This is it. And, again, right, like, why do the powers that be want to disconnect us from that?
Octavia Raheem: I know.
Natalie Miller: Whoa, whoa, whoa. [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: [laugh] I know.
Natalie Miller: Right?
Octavia Raheem: I know.
Natalie Miller: There’s so much—there’s literally life-giving power there.
Octavia Raheem: Yeah. And the thing is because I—sometimes, we come to like, well, I want what I think I can have, right? So, here’s another thing about fatigue and tired and doing the hustle and bustle is that the things you start to daydream and want and aspire for for yourself, just have more of that vibration.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, you’re right.
Octavia Raheem: And, so, even, you know, to start to be like, well, what do I really desire, I would invite people to go take a quiet walk, or play some music, and just dance with themselves, like, do something just because, right. It’s restorative or it’s easeful or restful. And then ask the question of themselves: what—how do I really want to be feeling? Because if, you know, you’re just on a day where you’re exhausted and you’ve had it up to here, and you go, how do I want to be feeling [laugh], you know, whatever you come up with—
Natalie Miller: Right.
Octavia Raheem: —write that down—
Natalie Miller: Well, basically, because you come up with high, I’d like to be high.
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: I’d like to not be feeling like this right now. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah. [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: This is all too much, you know. But here’s the other thing about why I like the hustle grind, hustle grind, it is—it’s actually addictive, right? We get like this like rush of energy off of it.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: Then we crash. We get another rush of energy when we get back in that cycle. Then we crash. And you have to be intentional about interrupting that cycle.
Natalie Miller: I love that. Do you know what that makes me think of? That, you know, so many people will come back from a vacation, and they’re like, OK, I just actually—like, I landed my jet plane. I went all the way down the runway. And, you know, by day four of your vacation—which is the second-to-last day—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —you are finally chill. You’re finally resting. You’re finally reading your book, whatever, right? They’ll come back, and they’ll be like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve decided I need to do this once a quarter. Once a quarter”—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —“I am totally going”—and, right, because, like you said, they’re making the intention. They’re setting the intention from that place—
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —from the place of, oh, my gosh, this feels so good. But then when we get caught up into our everyday life, and we look at the list, and it’s like, well, you know, I want to get this done, this done, this done, this done—
Octavia Raheem: You know what happened, from a nervous system, like they got out of flight-and-fight mode.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes.
Octavia Raheem: They got out of that constant stimulation, and responding to stimuli mode, and they were able then to more clearly see, assess, and also access more range of possibility. That’s the other thing. Like, from fatigue, you know, I think it was David Whyte, the poet, who said, “When your eyes are tired, the world is tired,” you know. Like, you look out and you’re like, that’s tired. That’s getting on my nerves [laugh], you know?
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: And it’s because I engage in, like, some form of rest daily as well with my son munching on the corn—the popcorn, and my husband doing this, I was like—like, in fatigue, I would’ve been like, “Y’all are doing that to me. Please stop it. I can’t stand any of you.”
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: But I was just like, you know what, whatever. [laugh] Like, I wasn’t—
Natalie Miller: [laugh] These men are loud.
Octavia Raheem: I wasn’t overstimulated, so I just was like—I saw it as them enjoying themselves. I’m enjoying myself, you know. And I think, to your point, when people are coming back from vacation and, (a) I love what you said. It actually does take that time to land the plane [laugh], right? It takes a lot of time because we’re hyper-stimulated, right.
And I think it’s why sometimes are like, “I just won’t even start because I don’t have the time.” And I’m like that’s why you just make a little incremental practice of it, you know. And then where you can take bigger chunks, you take bigger chunks, right?
But, essentially, we do actually—I’m like I feel it is imperative for us to find a way to step outside of the hyper-stimuli that has us in constant reaction mode versus responding from a sense of presence. Because we can also create so much more harm just when we’re constantly reacting to everything on Instagram. [laugh] I’m reacting to everything that person does, or newsletter they send, or whatever.
Natalie Miller: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I think, you know, in that first passage that I’d asked you read, you’re just right. Like, there is our planet, our bodies are telling us right now, “Y’all need to settle down.” [laugh] Like, I went into the grocery yesterday. It’s January 2022. There was like nothing on the shelves because the wor…like, we cannot sustain this.
Octavia Raheem: Yeah, that’s right.
Natalie Miller: We cannot sustain this. It’s not sustainable. So, OK. So, Octavia, let’s see. We want our people to honor where they are—
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —this jet plane existence—
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —and to—if you’re scared to rest, (a) Natalie is too. She’s working on it. [laugh] And Octavia can tell you from experience—
Octavia Raheem: And I was too, and that’s like a whole nother long story, you know.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, yes. But it’s possible.
Octavia Raheem: It’s possible.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. And then (b) how lovely to begin to expand your capacities for pausing, for space with less stimulation, I think. Like, I was thinking about that. Oh, my gosh, a walk without headphones?
Octavia Raheem: It was glorious.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: Yeah, it was. And I was like, what? Why? [laugh] You know, sometimes I walk with headphones. But today I was like my resting practice today, my restful or restorative practice today is to take a walk without listening to anything but what is, you know?
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes. So, to let the restorative practice be flexible, and let it be—what I’m hearing from you, Octavia is let it be guided by what do I—how do I want to feel? Like, what would be delightful just because? I love that. That’s actually—I call that treats. [laugh] There’s an episode on that. [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: And to know you’re worthy of, like, what you want, you know. Like, you get to feel how you want to feel, right? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: Like, you get to create and take a space, right? I’m very much into actually taking space, like give me that. [laugh] That is mine, right? [laugh] To take space, to create something you actually just want for you, right? Like, I think—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: I have to feel that in my body, like, because I think so many people struggle with like, well, who am I to get what I actually what? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Octavia Raheem: I don’t know if that makes any [laugh]—
Natalie Miller: Totally. Totally. And we for…when we forget that we are co-creators of this world, we are co-creators of this life, like, you know, do we all have the same access to resources? No—
Octavia Raheem: No.
Natalie Miller: —because lots of reasons. But, nonetheless, we do have that power, and we do have that co-creativity. And, so, charging it up—and I love this, oh, everybody please do this. Ask yourself from the restful place, “What do I want?”
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: From the tank that’s at least a quarter full [laugh], where do I want to go? So, it doesn’t seem like, oh, I can only go this short little distance, or I could—only this is possible. Oh, I love that. It’s so good.
Octavia Raheem: That’s right. One thing I also encourage people to do is to have what I call a rest pod. [laugh] You know, like, we have masterminds for everything. We might have a little group of people we get together and talk about our business with, and all of that. But I’m like I have women in my life that we hold each other accountable for how we restore because what we are holding each other accountable to is how we restore our power, right.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: That’s the other thing. It’s like on period, as the young people say. [laugh] Like, rest is how we restore our power. Like, whoever can keep me tired and out-of-pocket has control over me, and I don’t really like the feeling of something else controlling me. Like, you know, like that rest helped to wake up to that like that.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Octavia Raheem: So, think about it as restoring your power, and activating more of your power through these practices that restore you, whatever they might be. But it’s helpful to have, you know, even if it’s just one other person that you start to have this dialogue with, and then you all say, “Text me or call me after you take your quiet walk,” or, you know [laugh], get together in person, and walk quietly. It might be a little weird but it’s also like [laugh] really powerful, you know.
Natalie Miller: No, it’s so good though. But it also takes us back to that piece of like no one is going to just give you permission. But you can create a squad of people. And, listen, this is what my coach told me last week. I was like, “Should I do A or B or C? I’m trying to decide.” And she was like, “How about D, none of the above?” [laugh] I’m like, “How about”—?
Octavia Raheem: Hey, come through, coach. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: “How about, Natalie, remember, we’re working on you’re doing too much?” And I’m like, “Oh, right.” And though I can do that with my clients, for myself it’s hard. So, I love that gesture toward, like, who is—who’s your community? Who are your peers? Who are your supportive squads? Who are your coaches? Who are your teachers? Oh, my gosh, well, a giant permission slip. It’s like a whole notebook of permission slips is this book.
Octavia Raheem: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Pause, Rest, Be: Stillness Practices for Courage in Times of Change. It’s out on February 2nd. Am I right, Octavia?
Octavia Raheem: February 1st.
Natalie Miller: Ah, February 1st.
Octavia Raheem: But the 2nd is close. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s out on February 1st, oh, my gosh.
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: And that’s my baby girl’s birthday. So, extra—
Octavia Raheem: Oh, I love that. Yeah, that’s extra special.
Natalie Miller: Extra sweet, yeah. So, you’ve got to get this book, and, again, you could work through it—no, not even work. You could journey through it or you could open to any page at any time, and a pearl of wisdom will fall right into your lap. It is a gorgeous book, Octavia, and I’m so—like, congratulations. It’s—
Octavia Raheem: Thank you.
Natalie Miller: It’s beautiful.
Octavia Raheem: Thank you.
Natalie Miller: It’s beautiful, yeah. All right. So, where else can the people find you, Octavia? What else—where else shall we point them? [laugh]
Octavia Raheem: [laugh] I’m just—I’m Octavia Raheem everywhere, and pauserestbe.com is where you can learn all about the book.
Natalie Miller: Excellent. All right. Well, thank you all so much—
Octavia Raheem: Thank you so much.
Natalie Miller: —for listening. We would love to hear your reports of resting. I think being more public and being more tran…you know, we’re always showing what we’re doing. Show what you’re not doing. [laugh] It’s so beautiful too. And show us. We want to see. We want to see everyone. We are all in this together. We are creating—
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —a world together where sustainable ways of working, and where resting are possible. Thank you so much for leading—
Octavia Raheem: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —this with us, Octavia.
Octavia Raheem: Thank you, Natalie.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. OK. All right, loves, thanks for listening. Bye for now.
[Music]
Thank you for listening to this episode of Mind Witchery. To catch all the magic I’m offering, please subscribe to the show, or if you want a little bit of weekly witchiness in your inbox, sign up for my Sunday Letter at mindwitchery.com. If today’s episode made you think of a friend or loved one, your sister, your neighbor, please tell them about it. We need more magic-makers in this troubled world.
Like all good things, this podcast is co-created by stellar people. Our music is by fabulous DJ, artist, and producer, Shammy Dee. Our gorgeous art is by the sorcerers at New Moon Creative. Mind Witchery is produced in conjunction with Particulate Media, K.O. Myers, executive producer. And I am Natalie Miller. Till next time.
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