Conjuring Stellar Collaboration Feat. King Moe

Oh, my love, I cannot tell you how A M A Z I N G

it was to be on this year’s Luminous in Taos retreat.

I’ve delivered and attended dozens of retreats,

and this one was on a whole other level,

because it was fully and intentionally co-created!

I’m delighted to have my co-creatrix King Moe

back on the show to talk about what went into

building that delicious collaborative experience,

and how you can inject some of that magic

into your next big project.

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Mentioned:

Moe's website, imkingmoe.com

and her Instagram, instagram.com/imkingmoe/

The book Being You, Changing the World, by Dr. Dain Heer

Make Magic:

A truly magical collaboration is one where

everyone isn’t just allowed, but encouraged

to operate in their zone of genius.

Leaning into the things that bring them joy,

learning from and relying on partners

who all light up around different things.

Transcript: Conjuring Stellar Collaboration Feat. King Moe

Natalie Miller: What I think what happened on a macrocosmic level is that the community itself became a jewel, and we had all our different personalities, right? So we had me on one side, and then my sister on another side, and then we had Moe and then we had Sammy—

King Moe: Ah, I love it. Mel and just everybody.

Natalie Miller: Yes! And Mel, and it was just so—it was so sparkly, because each person was bringing their thing, and each person was bringing their flavor and we were all appreciating that in one another and we were all learning from one another. I dunno, that’s how it felt to me. Did it feel that way to you?

King Moe: It did. It did. And it was, again, back to one of those things, and I think you and I talked about it one of the last times I was on here too, is when people are living and leaning into the things that make them happy, that bring them joy, that fill them up, that satisfy them—when they’re giving that back to the world, it’s elevating. It’s expansive. And I feel like that’s what everybody was bringing to the table. Again, just very, very naturally.

[intro music]

Natalie Miller: Welcome to Mind Witchery. I’m your host Natalie Miller, and I’m so glad you’re here.

Hello there, and welcome. I’m excited to have back on the show, for a second time, my friend, my co-creatrix, my collaborator, the one and only King Moe. Hi, Moe.

King Moe: What up, what up, what up guys. Hey hey.

Natalie Miller: Today’s episode is a conjuring episode. It’s a conversation. And here’s how this episode was born: Moe and I are sitting in the Albuquerque airport after finishing this week-long retreat, and our flight’s delayed because there’s something wrong with the plane, and we’re just sitting there in the airport, and we’re talking about the experience we just had and also the experience that we just delivered. Like the experience that we created for our retreat participants in the Luminous in Taos retreat this summer. And I dunno, we get like three minutes into the conversation and we’re both like “Okay, this just needs to be a podcast.” [laughs]

King Moe: [laughs] Exactly. It was some good shit.

Natalie Miller: The people need to hear us talking about this. Oh gosh. So what we were reflecting on, Moe, was we were just talking about what the collaboration of this retreat felt like, and how different, and good, and delicious it was to work together.

King Moe: Delicious, that’s the word. Delicious.

Natalie Miller: Yes, delicious. It was, like, joyful to work together. And we wanted to just to talk about: what were some of the key ingredients of that? Like, how did that work? So very first off, and this might make you cry, Moe—

King Moe: Oh yeah, I’m a big crier, baby. Shit, I already had a cry before we started today. [laughter] I need tissue at all times.

Natalie Miller: [laughs] That big, cancer heart. Okay, so this Luminous in Taos retreat. I’ve led retreats in this place many times, and I do it a little—or have, I will say—I have done it a little differently every year. And this year, after having this experience of a photo shoot with you, I was thinking, “Oh my gosh, I think it would be amazing to incorporate a photo shoot into this retreat.” And I think my heart knew that you were the person to ask, because I saw how you collaborate with your team. So, you could just talk about that a little bit? Like when you do a shoot, how does it work that you’re working with other people.

King Moe: Whew, yeah, I’m not gonna cry. [laughs] So when I do a shoot, it’s definitely a team effort. The client, my muse, gets to meet me first. So we do our phone calls; we do all that beautiful brainstorming and creating together. But the day of, it’s myself, my assistant Moe, and my makeup artist, Alexis. And, you know, each lady basically has time with my client during the shoot for all different parts of the shoot. We are a team, and we play off of each other. I’ve been with them for a good little bit now, and they are like the other side of my brain, sometimes. So, it’s like a partnership. You know, I’m doing a lot of the—I’m doing a lot of my thing, my area of genius, and then I leave them to be in their area of genius. And it just works.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, and actually in my shoot I was even lucky, because you had a videographer there also. 

King Moe: Yeah, I have a videographer there from time to time. 

Natalie Miller: Yeah, and I just remember the two of you would be kind of, like, brainstorming different shots, and I remember, like, the vibe that your assistant—that Moe and your makeup artist set was just so congruent with your vibe. It felt really good, and I could feel that it was co-created. Not like, “This is the Moe show and here’s my backup singers.” [laughs] You know what I mean?

King Moe: That makes me feel so good. ‘Cause I really—like, it’s really organic how that happened. I mean, I’m intentional about just treating people well, you know, but that kinda happens organically, and I love that you noticed that.

Natalie Miller: Mm-hmm. I mean, I could feel it, right? And that is very much the way that I work with my team. And in Luminous, of course, we had ten people on retreat, and we had—if you include me—seven people supporting the retreat. So we had our makeup artist. We had my incredible right hand woman, left hand woman, all hands woman, Sammy.

King Moe: Hey Sammy! [laughs]

Natalie Miller: [laughs] I know. We had my sister who’s been assisting in my Taos retreats forever. Um, we had a videographer. We had a makeup artist. We had my incredible colleague, Tara, who came to teach yoga. We had all of these people on the retreat. And Moe, like, what it felt like for me, was that I could be fully present with the people who were there. And I wonder if you get that sense, too, when you’re doing a shoot. And you have all this assistance. It’s like, I get to be with you. I’m not taking care of all the little bullshit that always comes up whenever we create something, you know?

King Moe: Most definitely. And that is how it felt, and that’s how it feels, so I agree.

Natalie Miller: So, let’s just talk a little bit, I think, about what it takes to make it co-creative rather than, “We’re on a stage and then everyone else is, like, support staff,” or something, right? You said something that really, like, spoke to me, which is, when you are collaborating with your team, you’re in your zone of genius and they are in their zones of genius, right? So that we acknowledge and honor that each person is bringing something, and is bringing something different, and is bringing something vital.

King Moe: Yes, super valuable. 100%.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, I think so too. And I think that—you know, when I think that you and I collaborating on the retreat, I felt like what you were bringing was this just—it’s, like, beyond sparkling. It’s like sparking. It’s this like, [sparking noise].

King Moe: [laughs] I’ll take it.

Natalie Miller: It is! It’s like this electric individuality, and confidence, and willingness to be yourself. And so it’s like yeah you were there working your magic with the camera, but you were also there just being you so fully, so strongly, and then that became inspiring, I know, for me and also for the other Luminous retreaters. So, that is what I saw in kind of our collaboration. It was like, “Oh, Moe is bringing the living example of what I’m talking about in such a fully manifest way.” It’s gorgeous, right?

King Moe: It was so organic. It was one of those times. I’m that person. I gotta be free. I gotta be myself. That’s my thing. I tell everybody, “I get paid to be myself as I help others be more of themselves.” So a lot of the time what I found out in my photo shoots, in real life, when people meet me—when I show up as all of me, that automatically gives people permission, ‘cause they feel comfortable to start showing up as more of themselves. ‘Cause a lot of the time they’ve been suppressing certain parts of themselves for all different reasons. You know, so I consider myself like a bit of a permission-giver. You know, like, as I be, others be more of themselves.

Natalie Miller: Yeah. And I mean, I could really feel that, and I appreciated both having that example from you in Luminous and also having—and we talked about this actually on the retreat—having help, holding these other women in that experience, right? Because I can do it. I love to hold women in that experience of, like, seeing more and honoring more of themselves, and as you and I talked about though at the same time, that is not easy. [laughs] It takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of openness.

King Moe: Energy, yes.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, I think both of us, we let our clients borrow our faith, and our vision, and our appreciation of them.

King Moe: I like that, “Borrow.” I like that.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, it’s like, “Here, borrow it. Try it on. Try it like a scarf, like a headwrap. How does it feel?”

King Moe: How does it feel? Yes, like a muumuu.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, like a muumuu, yes, like a pair of cowgirl boots. Right like--[laughs]. Moe and I did get a pair of matching cowgirl boots on the last day, because it only seemed right. It only seemed right. 

King Moe: Right! And it was organic. It was just another one of those things. It just kinda happened when we were in a store and bam. It was awesome. 

Natalie Miller: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, but I think you know that is—and I’m speaking of course to all of you out there who also do a version of this work where you are helping to kind of lift other people up—that’s a heavy lift sometimes, and I was so grateful to have you helping with that. It really made it feel so different for me. I’m curious, like, how it felt for you having me as a coach, like, also lifting, you know, all of these lovely people up to the light of their photo shoot, as well. [laughs]

King Moe: I gotta take my glasses off for this one y’all. [laughs] I will say this—and I mentioned it in one of our conversations, um—it felt good. It felt good to be in a space with another woman, and other women, and not feel like, you know, I gotta walk on eggshells, or I can’t shine too bright, or I can’t do this, or I can’t do that. Like, to just be and be yourself completely fully and that be complementary to the other ladies and people that are in attendance. It just felt magical, like there was just something there that was—I was skipping my ass around that compound, like every day. Like, when I got back, I was just reflecting on the joy, and I was just reflecting on the ease. The joy and the ease. That it felt for me, almost like one of those things where I wanted to bottle it up. Where I set an anchor, this is what I want to remember. This is how easy and joyful creating and co-creating can be. It was a beautiful example for me. And I thank you for that. I actually thank you for sharing your space, your ladies, your knowledge, your wisdom, so generously with me, because that’s not always the case when I show up. It is really not. 

Natalie Miller: Yeah, I think we talked about this on one of our car rides. Because Moe and I did—

King Moe: We got car rides girl. [laughs] This should have been a podcast.

Natalie Miller: Listen, listen. We got some glorious car rides through the mountains of New Mexico, and it was just, like, you know, and this will speak to those of you who do shine really brightly, like—

King Moe: Without trying. ‘Cause that’s one thing that we realized. This is not us trying. This is us being, 100%.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, it’s us being. We shine really brightly. And I think we’ve gone through a lot of fires of personal travails and turmoils that have forged that brightness. Like, it’s like, yeah, you know, we’re born with it, sure, but also like, no! We fuckin’ earned this shit! Like we—

King Moe: Damn right!

Natalie Miller: Like we’ve been—

King Moe: People don’t know what I’ve—how I show up and get up every day for myself. That builds confidence in itself, you know?

Natalie Miller: Yeah. No—same, same. And like you know, I think getting this kind of sense of self and actually really leaning into our talents, and—and orienting ourselves towards what we love, all of that makes us very shiny. And both you and I have had a lot of experiences where, especially in communities with women—which is just so sad, right—it’s like if you get too shiny, you’re a threat.

King Moe: You’re a threat, yeah.

Natalie Miller: Like, “Stay in your place, and keep it under wraps, and keep it contained.” And this collaboration, Moe, with you, and also with like the very differently shiny other kind of assistants and retreaters that we had, right? It really was like—

King Moe: The multifaceted. I’m going to use that forever now. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: Ahh, I know! Okay, so yeah. So, we can tell the people. So, the theme of the retreat was that, like, you know, my real belief, which is that each of us is a jewel, and we have all of these different facets to ourselves. We have, like, the independent one, and we have the mothering one, and we have the one who’s a traveler, and we have the one who’s a homebody. And it’s like all of those selves are—create the jewel that is us. And the more we can explore and light up those different parts of ourselves, the more we sparkle and shine. Right? The more we connect with other people. And I do think that on a microcosmic level, I saw that happen for every person on that retreat, whether we were attending, or working, or honestly, even if you were working in the retreat, it felt like you were attending the retreat anyway. [laughs]

King Moe: You were! ‘Cause you were absorbing. It was one of those sponge moments. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: Yeah, yeah. Well, and it’s like, you know, the kind of coaching that I do, Wayfinder Coaching, one of our tenets is, “We live it to give it.” Like we can’t offer it unless we are living it ourselves, right? We live it to give it. Thank you Martha Beck, I get that from her. 

Um, but anyway, what I think what happened on a macrocosmic level is that the community itself became a jewel, and we had all our different personalities, right? So we had me on one side, and then my sister on another side, and then we had Moe and then we had Sammy—

King Moe: Ah I love it. Mel and just everybody

Natalie Miller: Yes and Mel. And it was just so—it was so sparkly, because each person was just bringing their thing, and each person was bringing their flavor, and we were all appreciating that in one another, and we were all learning from one another. I dunno, that’s how it felt to me. Did it feel that way to you?

King Moe: It did, it did. And it was, again, back to one of those things—and I think you and I talked about it one of the last times I was on here, too—is when people are living, and leaning into the things that make them happy, that bring them joy, that fill them up, that satisfy them, when they’re giving that back to the world, it’s elevating. It’s expansive. And I feel like that’s what everybody was bringing to the table. Again, just very, very naturally. We played off of each other. It was like a dance. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: It was like a dance.

King Moe: It was like a dance.

Natalie Miller: And you know I will for a moment say like I’m thinking to myself, I’m so—so I’ve been leading retreats for like a decade, a really long time, and—

King Moe: This is my first one y’all! My very first one, so Natalie has spoiled my ass. I’m so spoiled. She ruined it for everybody. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: [laughs] Yes, don’t come Luminous unless you want a standard of retreat... But you know like I was thinking about, just now, as you were talking, I was like you know, by design, the retreat gives the space for that, right? So we had, like, our sweet Kayleigh who’s heading into town every day—

King Moe: Looking fabulous.

Natalie Miller: Being fabulous, befriending all of the little shop owners, finding the best Matcha Latte, and like, you know, coming back to town and being like, “Well, there’s a festival this weekend—” 

King Moe: There’s a fiesta! [laughs]

Natalie Miller: Exactly, you know, “Well this place doesn’t open till 11,” and she’s got all this intel on being in the community and that’s because like when I, you know, create a retreat, I wanna make space for people to do their own thing, right? So—

King Moe: That is important. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: Yes, yes. Right? Because some of us want to go on a hike and a walk. We had some brisk—[laughs] brisk, adventurous outdoorsy types, and then we had people who were like, “Yeah, I’m gonna, like, sit, and I’m gonna draw, or I’m gonna—“

King Moe: Do a puzzle.

Natalie Miller: Yes! I know I always bring a jigsaw puzzle, I do. Um, yeah. Or just like hang out on the porch and chat with people. Or go to your room, or you know, spend time taking advantage of legal recreational marijuana in New Mexico. [laughs]

King Moe: That part! [laughs]

Natalie Miller: [laughs] Yeah, right? Um, but you know, yeah. Just like all to say that it is, I think we can structure in the ability for people to take care of themselves and be themselves.

King Moe: And not feel guilty about it. 

Natalie Miller: Yes!

King Moe: Because that’s the thing, like, on the outside I did notice something with the ladies, ‘cause you know this is my life, this is how I live, this has been a work in progress for years of me being myself and doing what I wanna do and having this freedom and not having the guilt that comes with it. I noticed the ladies—I noticed in the beginning you know how they, “Oh you just get to do whatever we wanna do?” You know, it was almost like a surprise, like a welcome surprise. And I love seeing them light up, you know, just having that realization.

Natalie Miller: Yeah. No, I know it was so beautiful. Actually, one woman said the most touching thing. It was maybe day four something like that. We were sitting out on the patio. And she had a spot on the patio. Like if I was wondering where she was, she was in that spot on the patio.

King Moe: [laughs] I know who you talkin’ ‘bout there.

Natalie Miller: You know, you know. I could just see her there. And I remember she said, she was like, “I haven’t felt like myself in such a long time, and I feel like myself.” [sighs] And this woman is such fucking miracle, like such a powerful, enormous-hearted, brilliant, beautiful woman. And I know she goes on vacations. And like yeah, we—you know, you and I love to go on vacations. There is something different about being in intentional community that is co-created by all of these different people who are just like, “I’m trying to be myself, and I’m trying to make room for you to be yourself, and we get to be ourselves together, and we get to just be in community in a different way.” 

King Moe: It looks different. It looks really different. I remember one of the ladies said to me—it was like last night, we were having a good time in the jacuzzi y’all. And she said [laughs] she said to me, she was like, “One of the coolest things I saw this week, King Moe, you were in the kitchen with all of us at dinner with your headphones on.” [laughs] Like look, I’m here in community, [laughs] but I’m about to do my own thing. And she was like, that just showed me like, there are so many different ways of being, like so many different ways of being. 

Natalie Miller: Yes. I loved that, and I loved seeing that. And I love the permission that gives to other people. Oh, and that’s the other thing we were saying, Moe, that we wanted to share: is it’s like, you know, if Moe is the only example for her clients, and Natalie is the only example for her clients, I think because our culture points to one person and is like, “Do it like that. How do you get successful? Do it like that, do it like her.” Right? And I mean, hell, there are a lot of people out there saying, “Do you want to be successful? Do it like me.” And it is so much more deeply empowering and resonant to be like, “Be yourself.” 

King Moe: Be yourself. Do it like you. What would you do? [laughs]

Natalie Miller: Yeah, and it could look like that, or it could look like this, or it could look like that over there, or it could look like that over there, right? It’s like that’s what glitters like the jewel, right? Is that there are so many different examples of people being themselves. So it’s like some people are like, “All I wanna do is sit here with this jigsaw puzzle,” and other people are like, “I wanna go for a big sweaty hike,” and other people are like, “I wanna go take nap.” [laughs] And Terry—other people are like, “I live in Canada and I just wanna watch Bravo while I’m--” [laughs]

King Moe: “I just wanna watch TV. I just wanna watch U.S. TV for seven days. I gotta catch up on my TV.” I loved it. It was no guilt. She was like, “Y’all go do your thing, I’m gonna go watch Bravo.” [laughs]

Natalie Miller: Yeah, right? And it’s like, “Hell yes!” Oh my gosh, that we all get to be who we are and how we are, and so, so often I think, again, especially communities of women, resentment builds, because we feel like, “I have to take care of everybody else,” right?

King Moe: Mmm. Oh, and that was another thing that I noticed. I noticed the ladies leaning more into taking care of themselves. Because we had, what did we call them? Some ground—what did we call them? 

Natalie Miller: The group agreements, yeah.

King Moe: Group agreements. I feel like you setting that tone in the beginning just laid the groundwork for how things played out the rest of the retreat. Thank you for that. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: Yeah. Well, and it’s, you know it’s funny, because like they were totally supporting one another, but they weren’t like hanging on each other, you know? It was like they were, they were holding hands. They were giving each other a little push. But they weren’t like clinging to each other. And, yeah it was gorgeous. It was, it was so beautiful. And I think that does come from showing up as we are, and yeah, like taking—I dunno if it’s responsibility—but it’s like understanding that what we’re here for is like tapping into our own resources.

King Moe: Yes. Yep, yep, yep.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, so good. Um, all right, so let’s like come up with—if it sounds good to you, Moe—let’s just come up with like some ideas around, like, what does make a successful, stellar collaboration? And the first thing I’m gonna say is like, choosing people who share your values. I just think, so important to choose people who—

King Moe: That’s in life, not just in the retreat. That’s your relationships, romantic, platonic, whatever. Yes.

Natalie Miller: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ‘Cause I think the magic with us was that we both honor individuality and individualism—

King Moe: Right.

Natalie Miller: And also, we have these big, squishy hearts that care deeply [laughs] for other people, and you know, and also we see teamwork as collaborative. Not as like, my team is gonna like, you know, make sure my room is ready. It’s like, no. That’s not what we’re doing. We’re all working together to care for one another.

King Moe: Most definitely, most definitely.

Natalie Miller: Shared values, that feels like a piece. Yeah, what do you have?

King Moe: I didn’t have any set expectations. Like that was another thing for me. Um, I just kinda showed up and let things unfold. That’s kinda how I live life anyway. Um, but yeah, not having these hard, rigid, set expectations, or goal markers, things like that.

Natalie Miller: I love that. Well, and also what I’m thinking is some of the like most amazing moments in the retreat, Moe, I think came from you and I co-creating, like, on the spot.

King Moe: On the fly.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, on the fly.

King Moe: Yeah, that party we had… [laughs]

Natalie Miller: [laughs] Yes! Yes, exactly. Exactly. So, everybody, when Moe—when Moe does a shoot, she’s not having you pose for the camera, she’s having you move for the camera. And I was like, “All right, all these ladies are getting a mini-shoot. I think it would be amazing if they could get a sense of what it’s like to move for the camera beforehand.” And so we went in. I was DJ’ing on my phone—

King Moe: We had a playlist y’all. We put a lot of energy into this playlist. These songs had so many layers of meaning, y’all. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: We did, we did, we did, we did. So we co-created a playlist. I was playing DJ on my phone. Moe was doing her thing. The women brought it so hard. They were so—

King Moe: It was perfect, y’all. It was just so perfect! [laughs]

Natalie Miller: I know, I wish you could see us. We were both waving our arms. I’m like, it’s so good. Yeah. It was amazing. And that was like what I felt like was like you and I both trusting each other to like—

King Moe: Yes, that trust! Oh you nailed it. There’s another one, that trust, yes.

Natalie Miller: Mm-hmm. And I think trusting that like the sum is so much greater than the parts, like it’s not like Natalie plus Moe equals like two. It’s like no, Natalie plus Moe equals an ability to evoke like energy in a huge, enormous way.

King Moe: I like that math. I like that math. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: So good. All right. Okay, yeah. So that organic, trusting co-creation. I think that, too. I think for me, I learned on this retreat, how much support I really want. Because I’m not gonna lie, there were times when I was looking, you know, going into the retreat, and I was like, “Seriously Natalie? You need all these people.” Because we’re taught, like, “Bootstraps.”

King Moe: Yeah. “You’re weak!”

Natalie Miller: “Minimize.”

King Moe: Yeah. “Minimize, do it all, DIY.” Yep, yep, yep.

Natalie Miller: Exactly, exactly, right? I cannot—for all of you out there who are leading experiences in that kind of thing—I cannot tell you how powerfully I got to show up because there was so much support, and because there were people holding aspects of the experience that I’m actually not that great at holding. You know? So there’s this other piece, maybe, Moe, that kind of also ties back to our thing, where it’s like we all get to be ourselves. We all get to be in our own zones of genius. That it’s like, you know what? I’m not meant to do it all.

King Moe: And that’s okay. It’s okay. It shouldn’t feel like a shortcoming. It shouldn’t feel like something you have to overcompensate for. It’s okay.

Natalie Miller: Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, what Moe is gonna bring is different from what Natalie is gonna bring, is different from what Sammy is gonna bring. Like, everyone is gonna bring something that is a little different. And that doesn’t mean that any of us are lacking, or less than.

King Moe: Yes, or less than. Exactly. And I feel like, that so many times, of course we’ve been taught that, we’ve been told that, we’ve been—that’s been modeled to us. And so much of what went on at the retreat, on a bunch of different levels, was having those layers peeled back, examined. Like, “No, I have options. There are different ways of being than this. I can choose differently.” You know, we were giving these ladies lots of different options that they may not have considered up until that point. 

Natalie Miller: Yeah, and with so many examples of people being themselves in community, I think they really, like—they went for it. And I’m already seeing the ripples of it. And this is world-changing. This is world-changing.

King Moe: It is. It is. And we talked about how to change the world—to me, my opinion, the way the world changes is when people start showing up as themselves. The only way you can be accepted, the only way you can be embraced is to be yourself. So many times, especially in different communities, you’re taught to put on this face, you’re taught to code switch, you’re taught to this. How are you code switching or putting on a face or minimizing—how is that showing someone who you really are? How is that giving society, people, an opportunity to accept it? You know? And for you to live it. I think I recommended a book to you, it was like, Being You, Changing the World. 

Natalie Miller: Yeah.

King Moe: To me, that’s where it starts. 

Natalie Miller: Absolutely, so... Oh Moe, I just love you so much. 

King Moe: [laughs] We say that the whole time. “I love you. I love you.” [laughs]

Natalie Miller: I know, I know. I know, I think we were not even outside the Taos city limits, and I’m like, “So, next year?” And you’re like, “Yeah.” [laughs]

King Moe: Let’s do this. I’m telling you, it set the standard for me in a different way. I opened up in different ways. You know, I’m a very outgoing, open, confident person, but I’m human too. You know, I’m human just like everybody else. I’m working through shit just like everybody else. Um, so my takeaways will continue to give, not only to me, but people around me. Like you said, those ripple effects turn into waves. And I’m here for it. I’m so here for it.

Natalie Miller: I know, it’s so good. All right, loves. Well, I don’t know when you’re listening to this, because as we said, we’re all living our individual experiences. But if you are listening to this in August of 2022, Moe and I want you to come to Taos with us next July. There’s an early-bird pricing, an offer to encourage you into the experience. Um…

King Moe: I love how you said that, “To encourage you into the experience.” I love that. Yes.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, well listen. Like we’ve been saying, it’s not always easy to say yes to ourselves. 

King Moe: To ourselves, yep.

Natalie Miller: Yeah. We don’t always realize that saying yes to ourselves actually lets us show up in the world so much more generously. 

King Moe: Yes. And I—that’s one thing I have to say about you—I noticed this. I sat back and I watched. I’m an observant person. I noticed your generosity. All levels. All levels of how you give so freely. And that impacted me more ways than you can imagine. Just know that.

Natalie Miller: Aww.

King Moe: Witnessing that, experiencing that. Thank you, Natalie Miller. Yeah.

Natalie Miller: And like, and know that like, that generosity is fueled by, shored up by support, and collaboration, and teamwork. So, I really appreciate that so much, and also like, I wanna like be careful to not like say, “Oh yeah, that’s all me.” It’s like oh no, that’s actually—I’ve positioned myself in the world in a way that enables that. And that’s what I want you to hear more than anything else if you’re listening right now. Is that when we figure out: where is my community? Who are my people? Who are my collaborators? Who are my co-creators? That’s not going to detract from your shine. It’s actually just going to fuel it. YES! I know, we have sparkle fingers, right? It’s going to enhance it and supercharge it, and fuel it, and like, isn’t that what we want? For all of us.

King Moe: It’s like stars coming together to make this big bright-ass asteroid. I don’t even know if that’s scientifically right, but y’all know what I’m saying. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: We know. We know, yeah. Not for nothing, very on-brand, Moe, is the tagline for Luminous in Taos is “Summon your star power.” [laughs]

King Moe: Okay, there we go. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: All right, loves. So um, yeah, if you’re listening to this in August of 2022, then come and join us, Luminous in Taos 2023. We have like a super generous payment plan, and um, we just want you to say yes. 

King Moe: Say yes to you, new experiences.

Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, a giant sky, a beautiful venue.

King Moe: The sky. Ahh, the food.

Natalie Miller: The food! The food!

King Moe: Y’all, I was in the kitchen every day. I nicknamed myself “Don’t miss a meal Moe.” Every day. I was just waitin, just waitin, just waiting rockin, seeing what was good. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: With the headphones, occasionally. [laughs] I love it so much.

King Moe: Join us.

Natalie Miller: Yes, join us, join us. And if you’re listening to this at some other time, just watch this space, because Moe and I are just getting started on our collaborations. 

King Moe: We really are. And you, like again, you’ve helped me see some things. This woman right here, I’ve labeled her a secret weapon.

Natalie Miller: [laughs]

King Moe: She’s the secret weapon. Like, and I’ll just say this: like, and there may be, like, other people that are, like, people that do retreats, people that host retreats, and people that want to, or have been thinking about it, or have been told that they should, but don’t necessarily feel right about being in that—showing up in that space that way. Something you said to me helped me a lot. Like I get to come on this and collaborate with you, but this is not something that I have to take on all on my own. And for me, that was just like a relief. It was a relief. Like I can come and I can contribute to spaces like this, and then move onto another space. I don’t have to be in a space all by myself, or create it that way. So that, that in itself, honey, you free me in ways you don’t even realize yet. You really did. You really did. [laughs]

Natalie Miller: I can’t wait to see it. I can’t wait to see what you do with it. Yeah. Yes, and like what a perfect message to end this podcast with. It’s just like, there are so many ways to do this, and you don’t have to do it alone. You don’t have to do it alone, and maybe the world is telling you, “To be a shining star, you have to be all alone on the stage,” but listen, no one is ever alone on the stage. There’s the lighting technician, there’s the sound technician. We’re never doing this alone. We’re always all in this together. And when we are in it together on purpose, it is fucking magic.

King Moe: Magic, yeah. Magic.

Natalie Miller: I’m like, this mic is not droppable, but if it were [laughs]. All right, King Moe, a pleasure as always. I’m madly in love with you.

King Moe: Same, same, same. 

Natalie Miller: All our lovely, lovely listeners, I love you too. Thank you so much for listening. And bye, for now.

King Moe: Thank y’all. Buh-bye.

[outro music]

Natalie Miller: Thank you for listening to this episode of Mind Witchery. To catch all the magic I’m offering, please subscribe to the show. Or if you want a little bit of weekly witchiness in your inbox, sign up for my Sunday letter at MindWitchery.com. If today’s episode made you think of a friend, or loved one, your sister, your neighbor, please tell them about it. We need more magic-makers in this troubled world. Like all good things, this podcast is co-created by stellar people. Our music is by fabulous DJ, artist, and producer, Shammi D. Our gorgeous art is by the sorcerers at New Moon Creative. Mind Witchery is produced in conjunction with Particulate Media, K.O. Myers, executive producer, and I am Natalie Miller. Until next time.

End of recording