Conjuring Co-Creativity Feat. Leslie Tagorda
We all exist in perpetual co-creation,
but some special projects couldn’t happen without
more intentional collaboration.
I’m beyond excited to share this conversation with
brand astrologer, designer, podcast host, author,
and stellar individual Leslie Tagorda.
We share our perspectives on cultivating co-creativity,
and share a preview of our upcoming co-authored book,
“New & Full Moon Rituals For Entrepreneurs & Changemakers.”
Subscribe! Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Pandora | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn
Mentioned:
Leslie’s website, thesavvyluminary.com.
Learn more and apply to attend my Luminous in Taos retreat at nataliekmiller.com/retreat.
Get on the waitlist for the book at https://newmooncreative.co/waitlist/.
Make Magic:
Fruitful co-creation makes everything easier.
Fostering it requires honesty and candor
with yourself and your collaborators.
When you’re ready to start your next group project,
don’t be afraid to bring your whole, authentic self to the table.
Transcript: Conjuring Co-Creativity Feat. Leslie Tagorda
Natalie Miller: So, I think there’s an opportunity for a really deep and refreshing honesty around, OK, it’s true, there are power issues in co-creation and in collaboration. So, how can we be mindful of them? How can we respect them? How can we name them?
Leslie Tagorda: Name them, be transparent about them, like—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: —we’ll be taking about how we’re feeling. So, like, even with Natalie and I when we’re collaborating, we’re like on Voxer, and I’m like, “I know I’m feeling a little stressed. You might be too.” [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: “But let’s do this.” [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, exactly, right? Or we’ll say like, “Listen, I just—I didn’t have this in me,” or I will say, “You know what? I think this whole section is just too much. Let’s let it go, right?”
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: So, it is about that kind of the willingness in the collaboration to be honest, and to let that honesty actually also make it better.
[Music]
Natalie Miller: Welcome to Mind Witchery. I’m your host, Natalie Miller, and I’m so glad you’re here.
Natalie Miller: Hello, my friend. I have a fun treat for you today. I have my friend, my colleague, my astrologer, my cocreator, Leslie Tagorda, here to talk about conjuring co-creativity, because we are in a time where we are all having a big humanity potluck, and we are all bringing our signature dish so that we can feast together. So, Leslie is here today, and we are going to have the most fruitful, witchy, Full Moon including, co-creativity-exploring conversation. Hey, Leslie.
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh] Hey, Natalie. This is so exciting. I love the humanity potluck. I just can’t wait [laugh] to taste everybody’s dishes because, you know, my Jupiter [laugh] is so strong in my chart. But—
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: —you know, for the listeners out here, what we’re doing today is so special because we’re actually working together. And this episode will be broadcast on two of our podcasts, The Savvy Luminary—so, all these luminaries, welcome—and Natalie’s—
Natalie Miller: Yes, and Mind Witchery, so hello, witches. I’m so glad that you get to hear a bit of Leslie’s magic, and the magic that she and I make together. So, part of the reason that we are doing this collaborative episode today is that Leslie and I are deep in a cocreative moment together. I had my socks knocked off—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —when I opened up my Voxer like a couple weeks ago. It was only a couple weeks ago, Leslie. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh] Only a couple of weeks. What are we doing? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I know. And Leslie was writing her New Moon Rituals book for 2022, and she was like, “Hey, how about we make it New Moon and Full Moon, and we write it together?” And I, of course, was like in—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —obviously. That sounds incredible. And, so, Leslie and I are coauthoring a book for 2022 on New and Full Moon Rituals with like astro information for each of the New and Full Moons, and guidance for you around how to use them, and self-reflection questions, which you know I love to give you at the New Moon, and Leslie loves to give her—
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —folks also. Yes. So, Leslie, why did you ask me? Why did you want to do this with me?
Leslie Tagorda: Well, cocreation, collaboration, has been on my mind for like the last year, the last two, and just as I was writing the book and thinking, “Gosh, how can I make this easier? How can I make this more impactful? How can I add to this without it feeling overwhelming?” and then your beautiful face popped into my head [laugh]—
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: —and I was like, well, this can’t just be for entrepreneurs because entrepreneurs, like, that is a small—I love my entrepreneurs. I am an entrepreneur. But we all need this. And I know that you work with feminist changemakers. And, you know, when we’re looking at the work that we have both kind of coined with that capital W, that work—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: —that’s part of our spiritual journey, part of our path, part of the impact we’re here to make on the world, that when we are cocreating, coevolving with the lunations and the cycle of the Moon, I can’t just reserve this for entrepreneurs. I want to bring this to entrepreneurs and changemakers, and what better way to get it out further in the world than to cocreate with you, Ms. Natalie? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I love that. And, you know, there’s two things I want to highlight in there that feel so important to me. One is that expansion of impact, right? Like, we are—everyone I think will recognize this—in our culture, we—in the dominant culture, I should say—in the dominant culture, we are taught to go it alone. We are taught the way forward is nose to the grindstone, is climbing the ladder. Who cares if you step on other people on your way up. Climb that ladder.
Leslie Tagorda: It’s like almost like a prerequisite to step on people. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] I know, right, yeah. It’s like, yeah, they give you—I think they give you a corner office when you step on your first person. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh] Yeah, oh.
Natalie Miller: Yeah [laugh], yeah. So, we are taught that it is an individualistic effort; that it is your rugged individualism that makes you succeed and that gives you power, right? So, we have this idea that, oh, there are geniuses, and they rise above the crowd, or there are, you know, the Elon Musks of the world, and they’re just won…Steve Jobs—they’re just wonders, and they’re, you know, they’re so like incredibly smart and/or disciplined and/or rebellious that they are able to stand out.
Leslie Tagorda: Or there’s like the—or there’s these gurus that it’s my way, and you have to follow my path. Otherwise, nothing else is going to work for you.
Natalie Miller: Yes, totally, right? It’s this idea that like, in fact, if anyone’s ever told you, “Just let me download my brain into yours”—
Leslie Tagorda: Oh. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —you know that is rugged individualism right there. It’s like when someone thinks that their thoughts are worthy of download to like overwrite your system, that’s a “yikes” with a capital Y. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah, red flag, red flag.
Natalie Miller: For sure.
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Red flag, right. So, the reality is, of course, that we are all always cocreating. The reality is that there is not any human who could or does exist without the support of other humans—like period.
Leslie Tagorda: Relationships.
Natalie Miller: Right? And we’re taught almost that, oh, no, if you get enough money, enough success, you’ll be able to not need other people. But there is no such thing as not needing other people. We are all in this together.
Leslie Tagorda: Well, interestingly, as we look down the road for like what’s coming for us in 2022 and beyond—at least from an astrological perspective—there are so many indications to cocreation, and reciprocal living, and coming back to like smaller communities where we are breaking down the boxes of like these old top-down authoritarian systems, and bringing in more collaboration, cocreation. There’s just like one of the—you know, as we are writing our books that we’ll talk about, there’s process of rematriation that I am so excited to bring into this new year. And rematriation does not happen top-down. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Mmhmm. Talk just a little bit about rematriation, will you, Leslie, because you kind of discovered that, and pulled it in, and it is super inspiring.
Leslie Tagorda: Well, you know, as we were looking through 2022, putting together all of our New Moons and our Full Moons coming up, one of the themes that really comes to fore in Virgo season in around August is this idea of rematriation. And rematriation, I heard it being said in a couple of places on different kind of news sources. But there is an entire website dedicated to rematriation; not repatriation. When we think of repatriation, we might think of, you know [sigh]—how would you describe repatriation? That’s the word that we’re mostly—
Natalie Miller: Yeah, repa…well, patriatizing, right, is sort of saying like, well, what tribe do you belong to? What country do you belong to? Which land is yours, right? The whole idea is that like, you know, we’re humans, and we’re kind of deciding which is the group of humans that we kind of align with, and then which are the humans that we are against? That’s kind of what—that’s the vibe I get from repatriation.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah, and then also in a scientific level, there’s this idea of like how can we bring back—how can we restore the land? And a lot of times when we’re bringing like native species back into the land, scientists have called this repatriation. But there are—there’s an entire website dedicated to rematriation—so, rematriation.com—where rematriation is a powerful word Indigenous women of Turtle Island use to describe how they’re restoring balance to the world. It means returning the sacred to the mother.
And, so, again, this is not just like a singular tribe. These are women from many different tribes on Turtle Island, meaning our Earth here, coming together and saying, “How are we going to be stewards of this land? How are we going to work together to restore?” And to me, like, this collaboration, this reciprocity, this working in community and circle is really what we are building towards.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. And it’s less achievement-oriented but it also does afford a bigger, more sustainable impact. And I just want to pause there for a moment because that is hard for our minds to kind of wrap around, right? Achievement, winning, is not the only way to have power and to have impact. We can do that, we can have impact in a more collaborative, cocreative way, and that way is inherently more balanced and sustainable. Can I talk for a second about our actual process of writing the book, Leslie?
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh] Please, yes, please do.
Natalie Miller: OK. So, when we first started out, we kind of did it like almost like you would do a class project, right? It was like, OK, Leslie’s going to do the New Moons, and then Natalie’s going to do the Full Moons, and we’ll just make it go. And we each did one, and then I looked at what Leslie wrote, and Leslie looked at what I wrote. And what we discovered just in this—because both of us were very open to it, I think—just in that exchange was, you know what, Leslie is really good at the big picture, and she’s really good at kind of identifying immediately what is the impact of this astrological signature that goes with this New Moon, because she’s an astrologer.
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Of course she’s good at that, right?
Leslie Tagorda: Big picture in teeny, tiny details. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Exactly, right? And I am really good at wordsmithing and at coming up with these coach-y questions because I am an English major and a coach, right?
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Natalie Miller: So, what we found is that we could make a way to work together where Leslie can kind of say, “Here’s the bullet points for this Moon,” and I can take those bullet points and like weave them into a paragraph, right?
Leslie Tagorda: A paragraph of poetry, let’s just say. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, right? [laugh] But the bigger thing is, y’all, like, it’s so easy.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Natalie Miller: And it better be because we’re like, hello, it’s the end of 2021—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —and we’re [laugh] like, you know, finishing this book but—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —you know, which we say with all honesty and humility. But it’s like when we work together, it’s easier. When you have a potluck, it’s easier. It’s like, hey, you know what we’re missing? Veggies.
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Could you bring some veggies? Right. Or someone says, “I make the most amazing pie. I’ve got pie. I’m bringing pie.” And you just know, oh, my gosh, right, like, we get to all have that, and not even worry about that part because each individual—so, like, this is what it is. The individuals are coming together in their individuality, but not with the intention of outshining or outdoing. It’s with the intention of making it easier.
Leslie Tagorda: And better.
Natalie Miller: And better—and better. The whole thing. It’s like how will this whole expand when we’re together?
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. It was so interesting because, first of all, when I was inspired to ask you to write the book with me, I only had these visions of it just being like fantastic. And both of us have all of this mutable energy, so I had—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: —this trust in the sense that we were going to find our flow, which we found super quickly.
Natalie Miller: Like immediately. It was wild, yeah.
Leslie Tagorda: Now, are we done with the book yet? No. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: Are we excited and under pressure? All of the things.
Natalie Miller: All of the things, yeah. But what is more important to us? Quality or speed? Quality.
Leslie Tagorda: Quality.
Natalie Miller: Quality. We want this to be good. And what is more important to us? Something that is in integrity for us or something that we can, like, get posted on our websites on December 26th? Like, integrity. Integrity’s important.
Leslie Tagorda: Well, also, the idea of integrity, right, is also thinking about the long-term. Even though we haven’t even yet finished this book, and I wrote one just for the New Moons in 2021, we’re already thinking, well, in 2023 when we do this again, we’re going to start earlier. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes [laugh], yes, totally, totally. Well, we’re in a place of learning and growing, and I think that, you know, because so often when we come together, we’re in a place of—and this is just the way that it gets organized for us, right—we’re in a place of competition or management, right? Wouldn’t you say? I mean, I have a daughter who has a school project right now, and I would like you all to think back to your days of school projects, right?
Leslie Tagorda: [sigh] [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I was just thinking about this actually. She and her group are not being taught how to collaborate. They’ve been given an assignment. And, of course, you know, what is the goal? The goal is to complete it on time with an A. OK. They’re not being taught how to cocreate; how to come together.
And, so, you know, one thing that Leslie and I discovered because she and I both are—we have the mutable energy but, also, we are collaborators—this is not our first collaboration, and it won’t be our last—is that there’s got to be an honoring of each individual, and what each individual is bringing. What’s the perspective, what are the strengths, and what are the areas of wobble that they have too, right?
I keep telling my partner there is no way I would take on a project like this, like a book, because, for me, the logistical details would be overwhelming. And, meanwhile, Leslie’s like, “Here’s our production schedule.”
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: And I’m like, whoa [laugh], it’s amazing, right? It’s just beautiful. So, that’s a wobble for me. It’s like, oh, my gosh, all these production details and the logistics of it, like, that’s a wobble for me. But when I’m working with Leslie, she can bring that into our collaboration.
Leslie Tagorda: And my wobble is I see the big picture but I see all the teeny, tiny, little details too, and I can easily overwhelm people with all of the details. And Natalie’s like, “No, what’s the big feeling that we’re going to swish here?”
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Leslie Tagorda: And [laugh] she just takes it. It’s just like so magical. I’m really excited about this book that we are cocreating because I just know that this is going to be the first of many. And, you know, two, three years from now, people are going to be like, “Natalie, Leslie, when the next—when’s the next book coming? We need to plan our”—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: “We’re working with the lunations, and our businesses and our work are just growing in this beautiful coevolution with the Moon.”
Natalie Miller: Yeah. That’s so good. Let’s talk about that capital W work for just a sec.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Natalie Miller: Can we do that?
Leslie Tagorda: Please.
Natalie Miller: So, as Leslie and I were talking about, OK, like, if it’s not entrepreneurship but it’s also not just like changemaking, like, what are we talking about? Are we talking about people’s businesses? Are we talking about their careers? And what we came up with is I think a more spacious and like open to co-creativity word, which is work with a capital W; by which—well, what do you mean by that, Leslie? I know what I mean by that? What do you mean by that?
Leslie Tagorda: For me, just because my—because work is so important to me, like, I have all this energy in the sixth house, this service to others, I want to make sure that I am serving others, and that’s part of my work. And, so, when I look at work, I’m looking at it from this spiritual perspective as our work is part of our spiritual journey as we learn who we are, our identity, what we value, what we are here to be the change in the world. And for me and for my people, it is through their work. Now, not everybody is like this, and I totally—
Natalie Miller: True.
Leslie Tagorda: —get that. But the people that I know that I am meant to serve, they are also meant to serve others, and it’s through this idea of work. And, so, that’s what I mean, like, our work that is our purpose on our spiritual journey. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I love that. And for me I think, work with a capital W really is like what are you here to give? Like, what is your individual contribution, that whole potluck idea? What are you bringing to the—what is it that your trials and tribulations, and your talents and proclivities, that your interests, like this magical mix that you have, what does that create that is yours to give into the collective, right? So, it’s similar and it’s different. Leslie’s orienting towards service. I’m orienting toward, like, kind of that like individual shine that makes us all work together, right? It’s—they’re complementary.
Leslie Tagorda: They’re complementary. It’s so beautiful how this all just works out [laugh] together so well.
Natalie Miller: It does, it does. But, to circle back to the group project, right, it works because I’m not trying to be better than you. You’re not trying to control the thing. Like, we really are looking at, OK, where do I feel best? How does this work? How do we—it really is a vibe thing. How is it easiest for this to unfold? What’s most important here? And then we’re able to orient together towards those like qualities, rather than thinking about like, “Well, you know, I wrote 50 pages, and she wrote 60 pages, and what does that mean? I guess I have to”—you know. Like, there’s no counting crap like that.
Leslie Tagorda: No. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: We’re in a different realm. And I think to enable co-creativity, we’ve got to get into that qualitative realm. Like, what is the magic of Natalie plus Leslie? What do we get that way?
Leslie Tagorda: I don’t even want to question it. I don’t even want to like look at it or try to like define it too much.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: It’s like one of those things that just like falls in your—through your fingers when you try to hold onto it. But I think for me, ultimately, the reason—not only the reason that I wanted to collaborate but the why I want to bring this work out into the world is that I see how potent it is working in cocreation and coevolution with the Moon. Like, I’ve personally been using New and Full Moon rituals in my work and in my business and in my personal life for years—and you too, Natalie, right?
Natalie Miller: Me too, yeah. And it’s like, for me, because I have listeners who are not necessarily into the astro, which is totally fine. But to have these periodic moments where you pause and you check in, and not just check in with the same questions—although that has its use too—but you check in with some questions that are coming from these bigger, broader influences, and are inviting you to look at the world through this lens or that access or these polarities. That is so incredibly helpful. For me, it helps me become more fully present to where I am. It helps me see more opportunities; helps me see more context. It just helps me see better where I am.
Leslie Tagorda: I feel like when I’m looking at like the chart of a lunation, and the different relationships and positions of the different planets in the solar system, I can feel the relationship, the energy of that relationship. And, to me, they’re always asking us a question. They’re asking us to make a decision because one of the things that I look at in astrology is that we are not fated by certain energies; that we actually have a choice, and that we can create our own destiny. So, I’m always getting curious with what are these planets asking us?
And even though the Sun and the Moon, they are going through the zodiac sign, and they’re, you know, going through in the exact same order, and have the Full Moons and the New Moons all in the same exact order, the different positions of the planets are adding just that little extra spice that gives us other, more specific questions that we are meant to work with and to inquire with. Like what you said, they’re inviting us to hear them, and to work with their kind of like little nudges. Like, “Hey, why don’t you try this?”
Natalie Miller: It’s like an ultimate co-creativity, right, is really what it is. It’s like, OK, so, here I am, and I’m going along in my life, and these things are hard, and these things are going OK, and I’m hopeful about that, but I’m scared about this, right? So, here I am. And then there’s a moment where I look up in the sky, and the Moon is so full, it looks like it’s hanging there like a peach. Or the Moon is so like yellow or so red, or there’s just a sliver of its crescent, and I get this moment of like, oh, right, I’m a human on planet Earth, and planet Earth has a Moon, and the Moon is illuminated by a Sun. I am part of something so much bigger.
And then when we expand with the help of astrologers like, OK, where are the other planets in the sky? Where’s Jupiter? Where’s Venus? Like, what else is happening here? And we start to say, OK, let’s ask some questions based on how these planets are interacting. That is where the truly cocreative magic happens because you can take those questions into your own specific hopes and fears and circumstances and stucknesses, and you can get liberating, empowering perspective. It’s fucking phenomenal.
Leslie Tagorda: I love it. [laugh] Speaking to the choir. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s the best. So, let’s talk about this Full Moon in Gemini.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. So, you know, when—as we were thinking about our cocreative process, and as we were talking about writing this book that will be released very soon, an ebook, and then it’ll be available of course to purchase from your favorite retailers, and we had our last lunation coming up, and we were like, “We need to talk about this lunation.”
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: Because when we are talking about Full Moons versus New Moons, Full Moons are a time of full illumination, where you have the perspective that you need to see, hey, am I where I want to be right now, or am I not where I want to be right now? And if I’m not where I want to be, why not? What are the things that are blocking me, the things that I haven’t committed to?
And this Full Moon, our very last one, a full illumination, the perfect time to reflect back on the last 12 months ahead—behind us, rather, so that we can make space for the next 12 months ahead. And with the Sun in optimistic Sagittarius, all of the hope and the joy and the possibilities, and then the Moon in Gemini saying, “Goodbye to overthinking. [laugh] Goodbye to [laugh] feeling overwhelmed.” There’s so many beautiful things about this Full Moon that are even triggering specific questions for us to really reassess what we need to let go of and leave in the past of 2021, and what we want to bring forward into 2022.
Natalie Miller: You know, Leslie, that is so—I love that. And, also, this is the first Full Moon in Gemini since before 2020 that has not been an eclipse. [laugh] So—
Leslie Tagorda: Oh, good one. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Right? So, this is a place where—this Gemini place, wherever it is for you in your chart, has been a place that has been through it—capital Been, capital Through, capital It—2020, 2021. All of the demands on us to be changing so much in response to the pandemic, in response to the extreme flare up of fascism [laugh]—
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —in our world, right, like have been asking us to respond. And, so, this Full Moon, it does feel like this moment of like, OK, we went through that. How did we grow? What do we want to take with us? What’s the strength that we built? What’s the freedom that we claimed? Because a lot of people claimed a lot of freedom in those eclipses. And then, also, as you said, Leslie, what no longer is working? What do I want to take out of my backpack, and leave right here before I continue on my way?
Leslie Tagorda: Oh, my gosh, for sure. Well, how did this work out for you, personally, Natalie, because this ecli…Full Moon—not the eclipse—this is happening for you on your angle, right, at the root of your chart?
Natalie Miller: At the root of my chart, yeah.
Leslie Tagorda: And for me, it’s happening right on the ascendant, and so like how did this happen that we are here today, and both of our angles are being impacted by this Full Moon? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I know, right? It’s sort of like, well—
Leslie Tagorda: How did this happen?
Natalie Miller: —I guess maybe that’s part of why we’re—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —doing this book together right now. [laugh] Yeah, totally. Well, you know, for me, so with the Full Moon at the base of my chart, I mean, really, almost exactly at what’s called the IC, I am more aware than ever at how important it is for me to take care of my body. Like my home, my body, the root of everything I’m able to do, depends on like structural integrity [laugh], right?
And because my IC is in Gemini, Gemini is mutable air. It’s like the most changeable, the lightest, and so I’m definitely a person who can like do all kinds of different things. And right now, what I’m really realizing with the Full Moon hanging there like at the base of my chart is just like, listen, whatever you’re doing—and there’s no one right away. I don’t think Gemini really likes a one right way.
Leslie Tagorda: No. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Whatever you’re doing though is so important, we must always check in with body—with body—with body, with home, with environment. So, that’s what I’m really noticing. What are you noticing with the Moon at your ascendant?
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. So, with the IC at the bottom of our chart with your Gemini, one of the ways that we can look at like the overwhelm of that Gemini Moon is this idea of overthinking. And, so, for you to affirm that in reverse, to be an antidote of that overthinking, is to embody and to root down into curiosity and that thinking part, just to ground you. For me, in my rising sign, I have to stop overthinking about how to be a leader. And, so, I’m a Gemini Rising. This Full Moon will be like five min…five degrees away from my ascendant, and I’m really looking forward to reflecting back all of the ways I’ve grown as a collaborative leader.
You know, Natalie, one of the things that we didn’t share is that we also have our north nodes, our kind of our stretched potential. Our souls stretch both in the seventh house, and this is—in seventh house of partnerships, and this is something that I notice all the time in my clients. So many of us have our north nodes in the seventh house, and if you’re kind of an astro-techie, and you know how to find your north node, just check it out. See if it’s in your seventh house because if it’s in your seventh house, you do your—you’re meant to do your best work while you’re collaborating—partnerships.
Natalie Miller: Mmhmm, and you’re hungry for and fed by collaborations also, right? Like, they help you to get inspired and to show up in a bigger way, yeah. OK. So, let’s look at some of the aspects that are happening with this Full Moon, Leslie, so we can give everyone some of those questions that can come through those aspects.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Natalie Miller: So, there is a Jupiter thing going on. Tell us about it. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: Well, Jupiter is generally like this buoyance and optimistic, and it’s an expansive energy. It loves this feeling of gratitude. It loves diversity. It loves purpose. It loves vision. And as it’s trining, the trine is a harmonious aspect; meaning that it has this very—a beautiful sound, a beautiful feel to it. It’s very supportive and inflow. And, so, Jupiter, if you are full of gratitude and hope, I feel like this actual—this Full Moon is going to feel probably like the least amount of stress that we’ve been feeling in quite a while.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: And, so, remember to keep your energy up so that Jupiter can just really expand on everything.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I love that. And, so, a question might be like when I tune into my body, when I tune into Moon, right, when I tune into my body, my relation…it’s like my emotional relationships, my emotional wellness, when I tune to that, what have I learned? What have I learned? What helps me grow and nurture and expand? Those are some questions that might be inspired by a harmonious relationship from the one that is optimistic and wisdom- and growth-oriented, and then the Moon, which is changing all the time, and is so close, and is so related to our bodies and our emotions.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. Oh, that sounds so wonderful.
Natalie Miller: So good. All right. And—well, what’s next, Leslie? Which aspect do you want to talk about next?
Leslie Tagorda: I want to talk about the Full Moon that is in a quincunx to the Venus-Pluto conjunction. So, a quincunx is kind of more a spiritual kind of aspect. It’s one of what we would call like a minor aspect. But it represents this idea of—there’s not really a good way to say it. It’s not exactly harmonious. There’s always this tension. You can think of like this kind of powerplay, this kind of master-servant kind of powerplay. Like, for any of us who has an assistant or a right-hand man, like I do, you know, in a way, my—[0:33:56 Jeff?], my right-hand man, is in service to me. Like, he’s helping me out a lot. But, on the other hand, like, I am totally dependent on him. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: Right?
Natalie Miller: Well, and also, I don’t know about you, but my assistant constantly tells me what to do. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh] Yes.
Natalie Miller: That’s actually how it—that’s how I get assistance is I’m told what to do. [laugh] It’s the best. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: Right. [laugh] So, it’s this interesting dynamic. And Venus and Pluto are both in Capricorn, and they’re going to be dancing for the next couple of months because Venus is going to be going in her retrograde motion. Venus in Capricorn is about collaborating and partnerships, and being connected with other people over the shared goals, over building something for longevity. And, so, this is so wonderful.
I have my natal Venus in Capricorn and, of course, that’s why I love creating things together. But with Venus and Pluto together, now, these are impact—impactful collaborators. And, so, this Full Moon to me is really asking what has been your relationship with feeling like can you trust? Can you work? Are you giving up too much control in your collaborations? And it’s just really asking you to get curious, and to see your role in that relationship.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. I will add that with Pluto there with Venus, you know, Pluto is the truth-teller in that Pluto is, like, wants us to know that we really don’t know what the fuck we’re doing.
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] I love Pluto for being like, “Am I planet? Am I not a planet?”
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: “Am I the end? Am I not the end?” Like, you don’t know what you’re doing, right? So, Pluto challenges that human desire to know and to be sure, and it’s always digging for a deeper truth, and it’s always asking for transformation.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Natalie Miller: And, so, there’s a piece here too where it’s like with Venus and Pluto together, Venus wants to relate. Venus wants to harmonize. Venus is—Venus loved the first part of this conversation. It’s like, yes, cocreation.
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Right? Pluto was like, oh, yeah, let’s talk about group projects. Group projects—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —are fucked, right? [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: And they’re challenging, and there’s power dynamic in there, right? So, I think there’s an opportunity for a really deep and refreshing honesty around, OK, it’s true, there are power issues in cocreation and in collaboration. So, how can we be mindful of them? How can we respect them? How can we name them?
Leslie Tagorda: Name them, be transparent about them? Like—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: —we’ll be taking about how we’re feeling. So, like, even with Natalie and I when we’re collaborating, we’re like on Voxer, and I’m like, “I know I’m feeling a little stressed. You might be too.” [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Leslie Tagorda: “But let’s do this.” [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, exactly, right? Or we’ll say like, “Listen, I just—I didn’t have this in me,” or I will say, “You know what? I think this whole section is just too much. Let’s let it go, right?”
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: So, it is about that kind of the willingness in the collaboration to be honest, and to let that honesty actually also make it better. So, I love that.
Leslie Tagorda: The last thing I really want to talk about in this Full Moon that we have—and I forgot to mention, it’s on December 18th at the end of the week, 8:36 p.m. Pacific; 11:36 p.m. for everyone in the Eastern time zone—is that with this Full Moon, we also have Mars and the south node in Sagittarius just hanging out. And to me, we were talking about this before we hit “record,” but the south node, unlike the north node where we’re supposed to stretch into our potential, the south node is where we’re supposed to let go, and not get stuck in past patterns. Mars about being the best, about being the first, about competing, about—it’s all about me, south node, we’re letting that all go because we don’t have room for that in 2022.
Natalie Miller: We don’t have room for that in 2022. And, you know, oh, my gosh, I’m about to make a pop culture reference. For the people that know of this pop culture reference, this is perfect. And for those of you who don’t, I’m sorry, but you should watch this show anyway. So, Leslie, have you watched Ted Lasso?
Leslie Tagorda: Ah, not yet. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: OK. So, in Ted Lasso, everybody who is fans of that show, Jamie Tartt is Mars. Jamie Tartt is Mars. [laugh] He wants to win; win at any cost; go get it; super, super, super competitive, right; wants to be the best; wants to stand apart. And Mars is there at the south node kind of like this happens in the show. Like, there’s just this—like, there’s not really a foothold for that right now. And Ted Lasso is the super chatty, gregarious, curious—
Leslie Tagorda: The Full Moon in Gemini. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: The Full Moon in Gemini, like, is just sort of like, how can we make this work? I don’t know. Let’s do it together, right? And it’s just lighter and it’s freer, and it really is like—it is a moment. It is a Ted Lasso moment. So, those of you who know the show, you’re like, “Now I understand.” And those of you who don’t, go watch that—
Leslie Tagorda: Go watch it. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —because it is like, oh, it’s so heart-feeding. It’s on Apple TV+.
Leslie Tagorda: I’ll need to add that to my list, especially since Succession. I’m almost done with that, so I need something else to watch. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, it’s beautiful. Oh, yes, yes, exactly. It’s the antidote to Succession, that’s for sure. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: I need that. [laugh] It’s pretty deep.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: That’s Venus and Pluto [laugh]—
Natalie Miller: Yes, oh, yes.
Leslie Tagorda: —probably in the fourth house. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Totally, yes, exactly. That’s what’s happening there. OK. OK, good. So, that’s—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —that’s fun cocreation too. All right, everybody. Well, thank you so much for joining us for this celebration of cocreation. I hope that you—actually, I kind of invite you—take away for your own self what you noticed about the way that we cocreated this episode today, right? Like, that’s the other thing is we love to show up and to teach and to give. But we want you to know that, like, you are teaching yourself. You’re taking this, and you’re making meaning out of it. Like, we really are all in this together.
Leslie Tagorda: It’s so beautiful. I love it.
Natalie Miller: It’s so beautiful. All right. So, let’s see, Leslie. Do you want to talk a little bit about what’s happening for you in 2022?
Leslie Tagorda: Phew, so many things are happening in 2022. But before we even get to 2022, can we tell people how they can buy this book?
Natalie Miller: Let’s do that.
Leslie Tagorda: All right. So, right now, there’s only one way to get this book. [laugh] But there will be multiple ways of getting this book—
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Leslie Tagorda: —as soon as we finish writing it. So, right now, I have a year-end offer called 2022 in the Stars, and it’s a strategic and planning tool so you can leverage everything that’s coming up for 2022 in your work. And part of that toolkit, part of that bundle, is the ebook version of New and Full Moon Rituals for Entrepreneurs and Changemakers, coauthored by myself, Leslie Tagorda, and Natalie Miller. And, so, if you head on over to my website, thesavvyluminary.com/2022, you can sign up for 2022 in the Stars, and there is also a waitlist so that you can order this book when it is available for print.
Natalie Miller: I love it.
Leslie Tagorda: What do you have coming up for you, Natalie?
Natalie Miller: What do I have coming up? Well, I’m really excited that for those of you who are interested in the book book, it will exist in early 2022. So, I’m really excited about that. It was funny, my mom was very cute. I told her about it, and this was like—I didn’t know I needed this badge on my daughter—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —Girl Scout thing, but write a book apparently was definitely a badge—
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —because she was super excited about it. [laugh] So, that will be really fun. And, you know, for me in 2022, I’ve been doing so much one-on-one coaching in 2021, and I’ll be shifting my model a little bit to be a more hybridized group one-on-one sort of situation. So, I’m really excited to move toward that in 2022. And, of course, I have a retreat happening in Taos, which Leslie—
Leslie Tagorda: Woo. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —that was our first collaboration is I invited Leslie to come to one of these Taos retreats. So, she can attest it is a magical place—
Leslie Tagorda: Magical. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —and magic happens there. And do you know, everybody, like, by the time you hear this, I think there will be three spots left in that retreat—
Leslie Tagorda: Oh.
Natalie Miller: —which is [laugh]—I know—well, which just tells you it’s right on time because lots of people want to come and make magic in the desert. So, if you have your hopes set on one, then you should pop right on over to my website, nataliekmiller.com, and scroll to the bottom, and say, “take me to those questions,” and then we’ll see what you say about coming to the retreat, and maybe talk to you about a spot.
Leslie Tagorda: Oh, my goodness. Well—
Natalie Miller: I know.
Leslie Tagorda: —Natalie, thank you for being on my podcast, The Savvy Luminary. And if you don’t already know Natalie, find her on her podcast, Mind Witchery. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes, exactly. And, Leslie, thank you for being on my podcast, Mind Witchery. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: And if you don’t already know Leslie, you should totally check her out at The Savvy Luminary podcast. [laugh] So cute.
Leslie Tagorda: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Do you see? This is what I—this is the new phrase that I’ve really integrated this year. It’s feeding two birds with one scone. That’s what we did today.
Leslie Tagorda: I love that.
Natalie Miller: We fed two birds. We fed two podcast streams with one episode. [laugh]
Leslie Tagorda: We have fed so many birds with this one scone, let’s just say. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes. No, it is a tasty big-assed scone [0:43:52].
Leslie Tagorda: A big scone. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] All right, everyone, take good care of yourselves, please, through these always weird last weeks of December. They are intense but they’re spacious. They’re definitely a little disrupted for everyone just because we humans do kind of collectively inject some scheduled mishap or scheduled space, I guess, into the end of the year. Some of us have holidays, and some of us don’t. And some of us love it, and some of us really don’t. And, so, however you find yourself here at the end of 2021, whether you are excited and ready to jump into the new year, or whether you need to like lie down and watch that whole Ted Lasso show [laugh], right, whatever it is that you need to do, I hope you will treat yourself with such kindness, and to trust that your best contribution comes from your nurtured and fed self.
Leslie Tagorda: And luminaries and witches, with this Full Moon, I hope that you’re able to illuminate all of the ways that you have inspired others, and how you’ve received inspiration over this last year.
Natalie Miller: Yay. All right. Thank you, Leslie.
Leslie Tagorda: Thank you, Natalie.
[Music]
Thank you for listening to this episode of Mind Witchery. To catch all the magic I’m offering, please subscribe to the show, or if you want a little bit of weekly witchiness in your inbox, sign up for my Sunday Letter at mindwitchery.com. If today’s episode made you think of a friend or loved one, your sister, your neighbor, please tell them about it. We need more magic-makers in this troubled world.
Like all good things, this podcast is cocreated by stellar people. Our music is by fabulous DJ, artist, and producer, Shammy Dee. Our gorgeous art is by the sorcerers at New Moon Creative. Mind Witchery is produced in conjunction with Particulate Media, K.O. Myers, executive producer. And I am Natalie Miller. Till next time.
End of recording