Aries New Moon / Libra Full Moon feat. Alejo López
This lunation is all about understanding our power.
Where we have it, where we want it,
and how we want to show up when we use it.
I’m joined by astrologer/psychologist Alejo López,
to talk about all the changes in store for us.
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Mentioned:
You can learn more about Alejo López and his work at liminalcosmos.com, and on his Instagram @liminalcosmos. He also teaches at the Faculty of Astrological Studies at astrology.org.uk.
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Make Magic:
This lunation is planting the seeds for big changes.
Before you start to Make Moves,
Take time to reflect on your urges and desires,
what you want, and what you want to achieve.
Transcript: Aries New Moon / Libra Full Moon feat. Alejo López
Natalie Miller: You know, for me, I always think of it even not as an astrologer, but let's say, as a person without electricity. If it is the New Moon, I'm not going anywhere. It's very dark. It's like, at night time, it's very dark. I can't see anything. I'm in my—do you love this fantasy?—I'm in my little cave. I've got my, I've got my little fire. Maybe I'm cleaning out my pack, or I'm reassessing inside, and then as the light grows, that's when I start to venture out. That's how I think about it. And on the Full Moon, that's actually the place to go, “Okay, that's where I'm going,” because I can see now. Does that resonate for you?
Alejo López: Yeah, yeah, completely. I agree. I think the New Moon is like very, very subjective and very just this urge to do something I wouldn't know which way to take. And I think the Full Moon, if you have had the chance to be in the countryside in a Full Moon, you don't need lanterns. You can see everything.
Natalie Miller: Welcome to Mind Witchery. I’m your host, Natalie Miller, and I'm so glad you're here.
Hello, my friend, and welcome to another moony episode of Mind Witchery. As you know, this year I'm having guest astrologers come and help us to look at the moons and think about how we might like to be with them on purpose. And I'm so excited for today's guest, Alejo López. Hi, Alejo.
Alejo López: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Natalie Miller: Alejo is joining us—so, everybody at the end of last year, I took a class at Astrology University that Alejo taught. It was on squares, right? Wasn't it on interpreting squares, Alejo?
Alejo López: Yes.
Natalie Miller: It was so smart and clever and also uplifting, and I just had the best time. I immediately booked a reading with Alejo, and I had a great reading with him. And Alejo, I'm so glad that you're here on Mind Witchery to share some of your magic. So, tell the people just a tiny bit, like, where are you in the world? And what are you doing with astrology these days?
Alejo López: All right. Well, thank you so much, first of all, for having me here. It's a great pleasure, yes. And I'm living in Athens in Greece. I was born in Argentina, but I moved to Europe many years ago, and I had moved to Athens maybe a year ago—now, maybe a year and a half. And with astrology, I do, I teach a lot. I teach at the faculty of astrological studies at the Astrological University. I'm also now doing the podcast for Astrology University, which is quite a new thing I'm excited about, yes.
Natalie Miller: Aww, that’s great.
Alejo López: Yeah. And then I do, of course, consultations. But I'm also psychologist, so I have clients who come, maybe for an astrological reading, but then I also have, I don't like to call them patients, but like, people who come like every week.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Alejo López: We look at their chart, but then we also do analysis, like psychological analysis from what's coming up from the chart. Yes.
Alejo López: Yeah, I love it. And what a beautiful marriage, so wonderful. And let me tell you, I think that these moons, these lunations, this New Moon in Aries and Full Moon in Libra are going to bring up some things, so perhaps we will all want to have an astrologer/therapist [laughs] to support us as we move through.
So, how do you generally think about, like, the lunar cycles? Do you pay a lot of attention to them? What's your relationship with them?
Alejo López: I'm very focused, maybe because I do psychology, and I do more like Jungian psychology, so I'm very focused on the idea that everyone of us has a different chart, so for everyone, what's happening in the sky, it's going to be different. You're going to have a unique feeling and a unique dialog with each lunation, so I pay attention to them, but I try to focus on what it might mean for each person. So of course, we can come up with some general ideas and questions and reflections, but then I think it's very important for each one of us to see how these questions are having a dialog with us at this moment in time.
And maybe for some of us, some lunations will not be as important as from some for some other people. And I think it's a treasure that it's this way, because we have new moons every month, so if every New Moon implies a whole new start of something new, I think we would go crazy. I mean, I think we need to read them in different layers, so some lunations will be super impactful in our lives, and some lunations may be more like a kind of introspective reflection but may not seem to have such an impact in the outer world, maybe more like an exercise of reflection for ourselves.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, that definitely speaks to me. So, Mind Witchery listeners, some are very into astrology, and some are sort of astrocurious—they are new to astrology, or they know just a little bit. So, if you were speaking to an astrocurious person who was like, “Well, I'm wondering how these moons are going to affect me personally,” what's the easiest place they could start to look a little?
Alejo López: I mean, it depends on the on the level, of course. So, if you know your chart, and you can understand, like, where your planets in your chart are, I would say, every—if you look for astrology on the web, you can easily find what degree the Moon, the New Moon, and the Full Moon are.
So I would say, if you have a planet or an ascendant or something in your chart that is at the same degree, quite probably that's going to be one of the most important—one of the important ones, let's say. If you don't have anything, again, it doesn't mean that it's going to be insignificant, but perhaps you won't see the impact so much in the outer world. And you can just, if you know the houses, so you can locate in which house it's happening, maybe you can focus on the issues of that house.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, perfect. And my friends, if you are astrocurious, I would love for you to follow that curiosity and go learn more. Like Alejo said, there are sole many resources on the web. There are great books. There are courses. And if you're just like, “I don't know, I just kind of like these questions that come through with these moons,” then that is also totally legit. A perfect way to—when the astrologers tell you, “Oh, this New Moon is bringing up these themes, or these ideas,” that's a perfect way to engage with them also, so...
But if you're curious to personalize, yes, I love that. Go and just see, “Hey, do I have any? Hey, this New Moon, our New Moon coming up is at zero degrees of Aries,” so at the very, very beginning of Aries, and so go look at your chart. What's happening for you at the very beginning of Aries? And see if there's anything there.
Alejo López: Yes. And if you really—like, if you only know, for instance, your Sun sign, and you're interested, I think this idea, what you said, just try to see what's the message of these moons, and try to see how it may speak to you. Because if it does—I like to use the word “soul,” which maybe for some people doesn't apply so much, so you can use the word that you like—but this kind of inner entity that connects us to something greater and more subtle. So, if these questions are resonating with your chart, when you hear the questions, when you hear the reflections, your soul is going to kind of vibrate with that, and you will get a message from it.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes.
Alejo López: And then the other thing I like to do with lunations—so, there are different layers like we're saying, right? So this is one, like a very personal layer, then there’s this idea of intention with lunations. Usually I see two processes happening: one that's very short and one that's a bit longer. So, the one that's very short would go from this New Moon to the next Full Moon, right? So for us, it would be from the 21st of March. We'll have calculated with the time zone for Greece.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Alejo López: So, maybe it falls on a different day for you, but…
Natalie Miller: No, it's still the 21st for us. [laughs]
Alejo López: Okay, and the Full Moon is the 6th of April, right? So, in these 14 days, you may have the chance to explore, like, in a very personal, reflective, like introverted, like in your inner realm, your inner fantasy, your inner world, the issues of this New Moon and the Full Moon. But then there's a longer process, and most astrologers use the idea of the six months that the New Moon, you plant a seed, then you will echo. You will have an echo of what you planted six months later with a Full Moon. I don't like this idea so much, to be honest.
First of all, I would say I wouldn't start things on a New Moon. I would wait a little bit longer. I think the New Moon is the dark night, so I like this idea that we have the urge to do something, but we still don't know exactly what it's about. So we actually think it's much, in my opinion—and this is, of course, I'm not saying that other astrologers are wrong; this is the way I communicate with this sky—for me, the New Moon is more like you start to think about it. You plant your seed in your head, in your brain, in your heart, and then it's in the first quarter that I would start the project, which, for some astrologers is like, first quarter is a moment of tension. But as you said, for me, squares are creative moments.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. You know, for me, I always think of it, even not as an astrologer, but let's say, as a person without electricity. If it is the New Moon, I'm not going anywhere. It's very dark. It's like, at night time, it's very dark. I can't see anything. I'm in my—do you love this fantasy?—I'm in my little cave. I've got my little fire. Maybe I'm cleaning out my pack, or I'm reassessing inside, and then as the light grows, that's when I start to venture out. That's how I think about it. And on the Full Moon, that's actually the place to go, “Okay, that's where I'm going, because I can see now.” Does that resonate for you?
Alejo López: Yeah, yeah, completely. I agree. I think the New Moon is, like, very, very subjective and very, just this urge to do something; I wouldn't know which way to take. And I think the Full Moon, if you have had the chance to be in the countryside in a Full Moon, you don't need lanterns. You can see everything.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Alejo López: So, I think it's fantastic. And then in terms of timing, nine months after the New Moon, you're going to have a first quarter Moon which falls very close to the degrees of the New Moon. I was taught this by Frank Clifford, and he took it from another astrologer, but I can't remember the name. So, the New Moon, let's say now it's happening at zero degrees of Aries, so in nine months, the first quarter Moon is going to happen very close to zero degrees of Aries, and then nine months later there's going to be a Full Moon very close to that, and then nine months later, a last quarter.
So, I like this idea because I feel like if you have a project, it makes more sense to think of this project—to project it in more than six months. Like, it's going to take more, and sometimes you have a project that you know is going to take more than six months to have a result. And this way, it's going to take a year and a half to start seeing the results, and I think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Natalie Miller: I love that. And I loved in our reading, actually, when you did a consultation for me, you took that much longer perspective, which I appreciate. And isn't that the beautiful thing? It's like, we have all of these nested cycles in astrology, right? So, there's 14 days. There's 28 days. There's 6 months. There's 12 months. There's this 9 month, 9 month, 9 months. So, I adore thinking about it from this perspective. Okay, so let's see. When is nine months from now, Alejo? Did you think—did you look at the calendar? Is it like…
Alejo López: So, I didn’t. [laughs] So, 21st of March, it's going to be like around Christmas.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, okay, by like the end of the year.
Alejo López: By the end of the year, so it makes sense. Like, you're trying to start something; you're trying to think of something you want to do, and it makes sense. You start to focus the energy now, and you may start to see something about it by the end of the year. I think it makes sense when you have, like, when your intention is a little bit—has a longer lasting impact.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Alejo López: If you're building a project, let's say, probably you're not going to build something in six months. I mean, you're going to build a little bit, maybe, but you're going to need more time to really see the effects, so I think it makes sense to put it in this perspective.
Natalie Miller: That's fabulous. Okay, well, let's talk about this New Moon. It is also here in the United States. It is also on March 21st, which is the day after the Equinox, of course, which means that this Moon is, well, it's almost at the first degree, but it's at the Aries Point. It's at zero degrees of Aries. The very beginning—well, some people think—the very beginning of the zodiac. And so, just off the bat, what does that tell you, Alejo?
Alejo López: First of all, this is the idea of how we begin the year. So, we celebrate New Year in the 1st of January. But for me, as an astrologer of the year, begins on the 20th or the 21st, depending on the year, but the year begins when the Sun goes into Aries. So, what's rooted there? It's going to have a projection over a whole year, so the first thing that tells me is, like, this year that we're starting on the 21st of March, we are starting it from a point that has to do with joining together our soul and our spirit, perhaps, our kind of body and mind, our emotions and our goals.
There's this idea of trying to be loyal to yourself, to bring them together, I would say, for the whole year, because this is the beginning—so, it's happening so close to the beginning of the year that I feel it's part of what's being planted to happen during—you know, for astrologers, for us, beginnings are important. They mark what's going to happen, right? So, it is happening right at the beginning of Aries, of the zodiac. It means that this is going to have an impact in the entire year. This is what I feel, yes.
Natalie Miller: Mm-hmm, I agree, and especially in 2023, because we started the year in just a retrograde mess. Like, there were so many retrograde—the New Year did not have a new-year feeling to it at all, and even around the Chinese New Year, still, it was like, “Ugh, we're still not quite going,” and so, yeah, I definitely agree. So, there's the loyalty to yourself. I love that idea for Aries generally.
So, Aries is a Mars-ruled sign. What do you think about that? How do you talk about that, about Mars? Mars and Aries and kind of honoring the fire of that, but maybe not going to the stereotype, which is that, you know, it's so brash and…
Alejo López: Yeah, this is what's interesting about the lunations when you think in the short term, in the 14 period, you're gonna have a Full Moon, because it means that what you're connected with in Aries in the New Moon, it's gonna be challenged when it gets to Full Moon. So, two weeks later, it's gonna be like, you're gonna see the other side of the coin, let's say. So with Mars ruling Aries, I think that's this idea. If we don't think just about Mars as the God of War, I would say there's this idea of saying, “I am.” You know, like, “This is who I am. I have the right to be here, and I am here on my own right. I don't need to ask permission or authorization to be here. This is who I am, and there's no one to ask for permission to be here and to trust my desires and what I want to do and what I want to achieve.” You know, I think what's interesting also is that, you know, Mars has been in Gemini for—
Natalie Miller: Ever. [both laugh]
Alejo López: —the longest time ever. So, we start the year, and, you know you were saying about how the beginning of the year didn't look like at the beginning of the year? And in March, now, I don’t know if you feel it, but I feel like this eruptive energy, because so many things are happening in the sky, astrologically.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Alejo López: And I feel it, like, very intense and very—sometimes I'm super tired. Sometimes I'm super excited and super energetic, so I feel like these kind of ups and downs.
Natalie Miller: Same.
Alejo López: And you feel it too, yeah?
Natalie Miller: So. Yeah.
Alejo López: And so, the New Moon, we have it with Mars in Gemini, and the Full Moon Mars has changed, and it's going to Cancer. So, it's, like, telling us, “Okay, Mars has been in Gemini for a very long time. You have had months and months to think about.” You know, because Mars is like our drives, our actions, what we do in the world. And when it's in Gemini, it's kind of the possibility to rationalize that, to reflect on that, to go to your impulses and your drives, and the way you act in the world to be able to think about it, to rationalize it. And because it has been graduate for so long, also, it gave us a huge opportunity to rationalize our impulses and our drives and desires.
So, I think this New Moon is, like, telling us, “Okay, now you know what you want. You have been thinking, this is like the last days that you have to get to a conclusion of what you want and how you can achieve it, because soon you're going to get to the Full Moon, which brings Libra. The Aries-Libra axis is like the balance between “I am” and “you are.” Libra is telling us, “You are.” So, when we get to the Full Moon, Mars will be in Cancer, so it's like, this is the last time we have to reflect on our impulses and our drives in a more rational way, because when we get to the Full Moon, we're going to have to see how that interacts with a reality of: There are other people around. And with Mars and Cancer, there's this sense that we feel what other peoples want, what other people's drives are, what other peoples desire, so we finally get out of ourselves, I think.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, and what I was thinking as you were talking is, it's almost like you've had months to think about something, and maybe you felt a little confined or stuck, actually, as you've been thinking about this thing. And listen, your soul knows what we're talking about. You know what we're talking about: that thing, that job, that relationship, that organization, that group, that routine. Like, there's something that you've really been kind of figuring out: “Okay, but what do I really want here? What do I really want here?” And it's been—if you've been chewing on it for a long time, I wonder if, in a way, it's like with this New Moon, it's like, “Okay, so how are you ready to declare your independence?” Because this is the moment to say, “Okay, I've thought about it. What do I want?”
Alejo López: Yes.
Natalie Miller: And then trusting ourselves to just say, “Okay, I'm gonna move forward. I know there will be consequences, but I do want to act based on what I've learned over the last six months.” What do you think?
Alejo López: Yeah, I agree completely. And it goes back to this idea of integrity that we were talking before, like the idea of bringing together our inner world and our goals—like, to be honest with ourselves and with the world. And also, you know, I like midpoints a lot. So, for people who don't know much astrology, the midpoint simply when a planet is between two other planets, so it's bringing the energy together. And this New Moon is happening in the midpoint between Mercury and Neptune, Saturn and Pluto, and Mercury and Mars.
So, to translate this into a realer language, first of all, I think with Saturn and Pluto, there is this idea of: What are your desires really made of? Like, why is it that you want? What is the essence of what you are and what you want in the world? And like you were saying, you had months to think about a lot of things, about what you do, and why you do it, and how you do it. So, it's like, one of the thing is: Okay, whatever you want to start, try to find the essence of what is that made of. Why? What is it inside of you that's kind of pushing you to do this? Because I think both Saturn and Pluto, they rule—you know, before we had Pluto, Saturn was the Lord of Death, let's say; and then Pluto became the Lord of Death. So, like, both of them rule these things that are invisible, and there are—they're not invisible; they're like, deep inside of us, and it's like the essence of what we are. This is what I feel. And it's a transforming archetype that pushes us to see what we're really made of. This is why I have this idea.
But then you have Mercury and Neptune, and you have Mercury and Mars. So with Mercury and Neptune, I think there's this soft, compassionate approach to yourself. Like, okay, you know what you want. You know now why you want to do it. You have been reflecting on what you have been doing, and maybe why you haven't been able to do it. And now it is time to act, but with Mercury and Neptune, I feel like do it from a place of love, of care, of compassion. Like, make sure you're attuned to what you really feel or think, I would say, you know, because with Mercury and Neptune, it's like feeling and thinking gets a little bit mixed up. So, it’s like what you really feel that is meaningful, and that it’s proper for you.
And also, like you were saying, like, put it out there. The way you put it out there, pay attention to the way you put it out. Make sure it's actually going to have a nice impact outside; that it also takes into account the other, because it's with Mercury and Neptune.
Natalie Miller: And just start taking small steps. Like, it doesn't—I think a lot of times these moments can feel so momentous, and it's like, “Oh, I have to do something huge.” It's like, no, just small—just small steps. Start gathering the threads of this thing. Start taking the tiny steps. Make the small, everyday moves, even, to get it going, right? So that it doesn't have to be so—yes, it is a momentous moment of stepping into our integrity, but also, that can happen by what you choose to do at 4:00 PM today. It's like, doesn't have to be, you know, so enormous.
Alejo López: I agree. I agree. And it's great that you’re bringing this in, because sometimes I think astrologers, we get carried away to epic proportions. And most people, most people are not the president of a country. We’re just having, you know, our everyday lives. So it's like, yeah, do it in your small steps. And also, I think this brings in the idea of the dark night. We cannot see, so, you know, tread softly, go carefully.
Natalie Miller: We have, also, Chiron and Jupiter hanging out together for this Moon in Aries, co-present with the New Moon, and I'm curious what you make of that.
Alejo López: I think, again, this is a bit trying to find our source of power, let's say, with Chiron in Aries, and it's been in Aries for a while now. And, you know, Chiron usually will relate to a wound, so it's the wound of feeling we don't have the power that we want, that we deserve. If Jupiter is going over Chiron—so they are meeting together—Jupiter, I think most of the time, is bringing a question about meaning. So, it's like, what is the meaning of this wound? What is the meaning of this feeling? What can you get out of this?
So I believe, again, this is emphasizing the idea of perhaps trying to find some kind of understanding of why we have felt we didn't have the power to do what we wanted to do. We didn't have the courage, perhaps, to do what we wanted to do, or sometimes the opposite. Sometimes, why did we do things we didn't want to do? Because I think sometimes we are pushed, we feel pushed to the things we don't want to do.
And I think with Chiron there, it's like this magnifying glass on, maybe not all, but many instances in the past in which we felt either deprived of power, or we have abused power, and trying to understand, “Why did that happen,” and how that may resonate with what we actually—again, with this idea of integrity, what we actually think we really are. What do you think?
Natalie Miller: I agree, and I think there's also something here about: Okay, either you did something that you didn't want to do, or you didn't have the courage to do what you wanted to do, right? Like, you couldn't find the power, or you abused the power. But how was that actually, really important? It's sort of like, what did you get out of it, also? What did you learn about yourself? About the world? What is actually vital—vital—about the lesson that you got, right? Like, you learned something about yourself, about the world, about power, and it's a moment to ask, like,
“What was that?” And to collect it, right, from Jupiter. Professor Jupiter is like, “Hey, let's, like—let's learn deeply from this experience.” Yeah.
Alejo López: Yeah, I agree completely.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Alejo López: Because maybe you will—maybe we will learn that we're not courageous, and we don't have to be. I think with Chiron in Aries, we are prone to feel brave all the time, because we constantly—we’re kind of constantly feeling that we don't have enough power, so we want to prove that we have power. And I think you see, like, people are sometimes so pissed off on the streets, and you see that we get—so quickly they get angry, right? And I think it's this feeling of, we don't have power, and I want to prove that I have power.
But maybe what Jupiter will teach us is that maybe we're not so courageous. Maybe you're not courageous in every aspect of your life. Maybe you're courageous in one aspect, and you don't have to be brave all the time and in every aspect of their life. I mean, I think what's important is, well, because, again, maybe because I'm really into Jungian psychology, what's important is to recognize who you are. And some people are brave, but some people are not so brave, and we have this idea that it's better to be brave. I don't know if it's better to be brave. Maybe brave people take too many risks, and then they end up having accidents, so maybe it is better to be not so brave. And I think with Jupiter there, we're going to find out and maybe accept that. I don't know.
Natalie Miller: I love that, and especially because Pluto is about to leave Capricorn. [laughs] Like, it's like, on the edge of Capricorn, finally about to leave. It does feel like a moment where there is a deep honesty here. And you already said the word, “honest.” You said, “loyal.” You said, “integrity.” It does, for me, re-underscore, again and again. It's like, “This is the moment to be true. This is the moment to be true to yourself, to your desires, to who you are.”
Alejo López: Yeah, I will say this is an opportunity to be true with all of this happening. Like, this is the opportunity to focus on that and the sky saying, “Hey, come on, do it. Be yourself. You can do it. You can be yourself, even if yourself is something that you think it's bad and powerless, or even if you think it's something super powerful, or even if you think something in between. Yeah, you can be yourself. Try to risk it.”
And of course, it's not something that's going to happen from today to tomorrow. It's a process. I mean, the lunation is marking, perhaps, a turning point in a process, but it doesn't mean that you only wake up on the 22nd of March, the day after the lunation, and you're going to feel like, “Ah, yeah, now I've done it.” Of course it doesn't work like that.
Natalie Miller: No, it doesn’t work like that. It doesn't mean if you don't make your New Moon alter, that then, actually, nothing is ever going to go your way. [laughs]
Alejo López: Exactly.
Natalie Miller: It doesn't—it doesn't work like that. However, let's come up with a couple—I have a bunch of notes here—but let's come up with a couple of good questions for that kind of self-reflection in the dark of the New Moon.
Alejo López: So, I would say, first of all, I like this idea of, “What am I made of?” And maybe not what am I, I would say, “What are my desires made of? What is the essence of what I want, and why do I want that?” But I would say, “What is it that I'm willing to do to get that? And what is that I'm not willing to do? What is it that I see I'm not capable of doing to get that?”
And I like your idea of taking small steps. Perhaps, what are the steps I can start taking into allowing myself to express who I really am, to acknowledge who I really am? We were saying this idea of asking yourself, “Where's your sense of power?” So perhaps, what are the small steps I can take to accept my feeling of bravery or not, and how do I relate to that?
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I love that. Whew! Let's talk about this Full Moon that comes, because the Full Moon—the moons as we talk about often in these episodes, they happen on an axis. And like you already said, Alejo, we have Aries “I am,” and then we have Libra “you are, we are, they are.” [laughs]
I don’t know, I feel like in Libra, Libra is always trying to kind of, like, weigh who I am with who everyone else is, and what everyone else wants. I say that as a person with a lot of Libra happening in her own chart. So, in that Full Moon that is happening, it's on April 6th. It's right in the middle. It's at 16 degrees of Libra. What do you see when you look at this?
Alejo López: One of the things that first—maybe it's not the most impactful thing, but to me, I thought about it because, like you were saying, Pluto is about to change signs, and when we get the Full Moon, Pluto has changed signs. So, I have this feeling that we're entering a whole new world because, I mean, Saturn changed signs before the New Moon, but just a few days before, like one week before, we had the New Moon; and then Pluto changes signs, and we have the Full Moon.
And I have this feeling, you know, that both Pluto and Saturn are changing signs and went to Pisces, which has a very different quality from Capricorn and Aquarius. And Pluto is going into Aquarius which also has a very different quality, so one of the things I feel is like, okay, we're entering a new world collectively.
So, even in the New Moon were thinking, “Okay, what is it that I want?” In the Full Moon, I think this idea of, “As a collective,” like you were saying, “there's someone out there,” is emphasized. First of all, because it's a Full Moon, and full moons, if you know a little bit of astrology, you know, imply oppositions, and when we have an opposition, usually we have the idea, “I am here, and you are there,” within every planet, right?
And secondly, because it's in Libra, so it's, like, overemphasizing the idea about all this. So, how are we going to adapt to this new world? How are our desires going to adapt to this new world? And I would say, how are we going to bond with other people? How are our relationships going to be affected by this change of collective thoughts or approaches that are changing. This is my first thought. What do you think of this?
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I love that. Well, because also, as you said, Mars has also changed signs. And so it's like, Mars and Pluto, who are the tough guys… [laughs]
Alejo López: Yeah, it’s true. Yes.
Natalie Miller: They both have, like, kind of a new—they're getting their bearings in a new place. And, you know, for me, as you were talking, I was just thinking, in some ways, that integrity that we’re called into in the New Moon is like, “Who do you want to be in the next world?” Because the next world is like a couple weeks from now, right?
And again, we're being dramatic about it because we like to be dramatic, but really, that's, I mean, I think we can—can't we feel that right now? It's like we've kind of moved beyond the pandemic restrictions. We have new challenges. Like, the world is starting to feel different. And so it's like, all right, well, given that, who do you want to be? Who are you going to be? And yes, that does mean you're going to have to renegotiate your relationship, but at the same time, that's happening anyway. Like, we won't be maintaining what was because the winds of change are blowing. The winds of change are blowing in this moment.
Alejo López: Yeah, I agree. Yes. And I feel like with Pluto in Aquarius, the issue of how we relate to each other, it's going to be—it's going to be one of the themes, I think, because Aquarius is a little bit about, you know, it's about air, so it has a little bit about this idea of how we talk to each other, how relate to each other. And when I was looking at the Pluto in Aquarius, I was thinking, I saw it was happening in the French Revolution. And it was this idea of being a fundamentalism, like this idea that you're either right or wrong, you're either against or in favor of us. And this is happening right when we have this lunation which focuses in the idea of who I am and who is the other.
And again, it's the beginning of the year, so I think it's like a seeding moment. So, I think one of the questions is, “Okay, how do I want to relate to other people that do not agree with my opinions?” And I think we have been tested on that with the whole pandemic, and whether some people wanted to be vaccinated, some people were against it, whether to wear masks or not, and the restrictions. So, I think we have been a little bit tested on how to relate with each other when we disagree and when we feel like your opinions may be threatening my life or may be threatening my sense of freedom. So, I think we have been tested on that.
And now it's like the focus—okay, now the pandemic is kind of gone in a way, so now it's a new world. But have we learned how to live with each other? Or do we still—later, sometimes I feel, like, this extremism of ideas—do we still feel like you’re either with me or against me? Do we still feel like whoever thinks in a way that is not the way I think is the enemy, or is a monster, or is something like that? Or can we actually humanize other people even if they think in ways that we find very, very opposing to our views, so that we can have a dialogue with them and try to see what we can build? Because, of course, it’s hard. I’m not talking in a rational way.
This has happened to me. I had friends with whom I had—I was wondering, like, do I keep this friendship? How do I do to keep this friendship? Because I have love for this person, and even though maybe their opinions are very diverse to mine, which I think my opinions are the good ones, also. [laughs]
Natalie Miller: Of course, of course. Yeah.
Alejo López: So, it's not an easy thing, and I think it's something we might have to relate to. In the Full Moon, the Sun has conjoined Chiron, so again, we are kind of, there is kind of this light brought into what makes us feel wounded, what makes us feel different, what makes us feel awkward, and perhaps it says that we don't have all the power we want.
And I think, hopefully this is an empowering message. Hopefully we discover that we don't have all the power we want, and that will give us a recognition of the power we do have and what we can do with it. But to do that, I think we need to accept the boundaries of our possibilities, of our efforts, of what we can do, we can achieve, of our drives and everything that we were talking in the New Moon. And I think maybe this Full Moon may help us see that the boundaries are other people.
We said in a New Moon, we say, “I am.” There's no way to say “I am” if you don't have other people to be with, other people to resonate with that message, and I think this is kind of the insight we might get on the Full Moon. And I'm saying this in an intellectual, rational way, so hopefully we'll be able to process this in a more emotional way, in a more personal way, in a more symbolic way.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I'm thinking that with the Sun conjoining Chiron, it's very humanizing. It's humbling and humanizing.
Alejo López: Yes.
Natalie Miller: And so, it's like, even as we have all of this—because there's still a lot of energy to create and to do—we are also called to remember our humanness. And I'm wondering if part of, you know, Pluto in Aquarius is also about that, actually—about, like, okay, well, we are all on this planet together, and we've learned just in stark, unavoidably, like, evident ways, how connected we all are, so are we gonna figure this out, or what? [laughs] Because the planet is on fire, buried under snow, at war—I mean, right? And we are all in this together.
Alejo López: Yeah, it's beautiful what you say, and I agree. And it reminds me again that Mars is in Cancer. For the Full Moon, Mars goes into Cancer, so the ruler of the Sun, but the ruler of the lunation, let's say, that started on a New Moon, moved to Cancer, which has to do with the idea of belonging, you know, the big family.
And the Moon in Libra is going to be ruled by Venus in Taurus. Taurus has this idea of survival in some way. With Venus there, I would bring the idea of pleasure, perhaps. So, how can we enjoy sharing life together? I really like your idea of small steps. We could see it in the huge collective spectrum. Like, okay, the wars and the climate change—I don't know what direct impact, like, a regular citizen can have on that. I do think that reflecting on that has an impact in the collective unconscious.
But then also, okay, what about your own wars, your own moments of disruption, moments of breaking apart from other people, breaking apart from situations or feeling challenged, or feeling abused, or seeing situations that you find abusive that are maybe happening in, you know, in your office, in your workplace? What can we do about that? I think it's—we can also see it in a more smaller perspective.
And I love the idea that you said about Chiron humanizing. I mean, it's also important to see what we can do about it, because there are situations in which we might not be able to do much about it. And then some kind of conjunction might be implying that we need to accept our humanity, that in some places we’re vulnerable and we cannot do much. So, I think there is a whole thing about what we can do and what we cannot do. Again, this idea of power and how to handle the power we have.
Natalie Miller: I wonder if this Venus in Taurus thing is also just like, okay, your attention is called to your humanity, your humanness, and so given the challenges, given how it is actually really hard to be myself with other people sometimes, given that I do want to look at my wars, I do want to look at the places where I want to make change, right? This Venus in Taurus is sort of like, but how am I tending my humanness? How am I tending my humans? So, what are the creature comforts, actually, that help me to sustain that kind of effort, right?
Because not for nothing, Aries is a blowtorch, a grenade. Aries energy is Cardinal Fire. So it's, to me, it's very bursty. It doesn't have a lot of sustained feel, and so I think it's by tending to the human that we get to keep that desire that we stepped into in the New Moon alive. It's like, “Okay, wow. Yep. I'm getting scared. I'm getting tired. I'm getting discouraged.” It's like, “All right, how do I tend to my human, to my body, to my home, to my nest, to my cave?” Or whatever it is.
Alejo López: Yes, I agree. It's all about self-acceptance, I think. It's like, there's a huge focus on self-acceptance. The Full Moon also picks up a lot of Neptune, like the New Moon—from the midpoints, I'm talking. So again, there's this idea of being compassionate with yourself. Like we were saying at the beginning, yeah, you discover what you want; you discover what you can do, why you want to do it. Okay, after you have all of these fantastic, incredible thoughts, be compassionate. You do what you can.
I think the Sun-Chiron is about that; like you were saying, the humbling experience. Well, we do what we can, you know, it's great to ask ourselves these questions and try to improve, but then I think it's very important to accept our humanity, like you were saying, yes.
Natalie Miller: Alejo, that makes me think of television and fiction. And I'm just, I don't—my mind, I think, went Neptune, that kind of escapey, sort of like blur-the-lines-of-reality idea that comes up with Neptune sometimes. But I thought, you know, I will definitely have moments where my human is tired and needs to retreat, and I don't think it's an accident that here at the 21st century, we watch a lot of television. I think we sometimes need to retreat, but still be engaging in whatever is kind of working itself out. So anyway, I was just kind of thinking about that.
Like, I read a novel recently that was really inspiring. I'm really looking forward to some of my favorite television shows that are gonna come on, and I think for me, engaging with the world in that way is very Neptunian. It's very, like, these are my friends in this book. Except they're not really, but they are teaching me more about myself, and they're inspiring me—if that makes sense. What do you think of that?
Alejo López: I think, yeah, I completely agree. To me, what happens when I read a novel, I go out in the streets, and sometimes I meet the characters—I of course don't meet the characters; don't think I'm crazy—but I see people, and I'm sure this person is exactly the way, you know, I pictured the character in my novel that I was reading.
Natalie Miller: Yeah! Yeah.
Alejo López: And I'm like, “Oh my God, I'm meeting, finally…” I remember when this happened to me the first time—not the first time, but once it happened to me with this movie, Love in the Time of Cholera. I don't know if you read it. So, I was in the bus, and this woman got in the bus, and I was like, “Oh my God, that's Fermina Daza,” the main character. It was like, she's exactly the way I pictured her. [both laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes! I love it. I love it. And, you know, there are studies that show that when we read more fiction, we are more compassionate, because we are literally seeing the world through other people's perspectives. And so for whatever it's worth, maybe it's a Mars in Cancer thing, maybe it's a Neptunian vibe, but while we will be called into lots of action and negotiation, maybe, as the winds of change are blowing, those retreats to our humanness and also those retreats to imagination, I think, could both be really helpful.
Alejo López: Yeah, I agree completely.
Natalie Miller: Cool. All right, so what are our questions for this Full Moon? I got the first one. It’s like, how do I want to relate to people who don't agree with me? I love that. And that could be like, “Don't agree with me, who don't want what I'm selling, who don't like my perspective,” right? You can edit that in the way that serves you. What else you got, Alejo?
Alejo López: I would also say, what are these people saying about me? Like, when you see these people that you find so hard to love or to appreciate, maybe they are expressing something about yourself. So, I would say, okay, why is it that I'm so triggered by this personality? What are these persons teaching me about myself?
Natalie Miller: Mmm. Can I tell—this is a question I like for that moment where someone is really triggering you, really bothering you. It's, where do I agree with them?
Alejo López: Nice.
Natalie Miller: That is a coaching question that will get straight to whatever. It's like, “Oh shit, I do kind of think I'm a flake,” [laughs] or whatever it is, right? I do. I do think I'm irresponsible. And then you get to kind of, you get to own that and see that the volatility is coming, actually, from that sometimes. Yeah, I love that. And then can we add that question, too, about like, how do I tend my human? Because I do think that that feels important as a—
Alejo López: I think it's very important. Yes, yes.
Natalie Miller: —as a balm. Yeah.
Alejo López: How do I go back to my humanity? How do I—like you were saying, how do I retreat to nurture myself emotionally before I meet other people, I go out into the world, and all of these things? I think it's super important.
Natalie Miller: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Oh my gosh, so beautiful. Well, Alejo, thank you so much for joining me to talk about these lunations.
Alejo López: Thank you.
Natalie Miller: I'm excited to see what they bring our planet, all of the shifting and changing. Will you let my sweet listener know how they can find you and what you've got going on?
Alejo López: Yes, of course. Thank you so much. So, my web page is liminalcosmos.com, and my Instagram is also @liminalcosmos, so always with that.
And then I'm going to be teaching a very interesting workshop, I think, on the 31st of March, talking about Aries. It's about the Hero's Journey. So basically, Joseph Campbell came up with these steps on the hero's journey. He says we're all heroes on our life mission, let's say. So, we're going to try to take the hero's journey to the astrology, so looking at charts and everything to find the hero's journey of different charts.
And then if you are into astrology, on the 2nd of April, I'm going to be teaching a workshop on the difference between signs and houses. But this is for people who are really into astrology because usually they get confused. And all of this is going to be done through the Faculty of Astrological Studies, so if you're interested, you just have to go to Astrology.org.uk
Natalie Miller: Astrology.org.uk. Okay, got it. Awesome. Wonderful.
Well, I want to tell you what I have going on, Alejo, cause I'm so excited about it. I am doing a short program called Crucible, and it is seven weeks. We are beginning around the quarter Moon, actually. We're beginning just after the quarter Moon at the beginning of April, and it is seven weeks to take some idea that you've had forever—maybe you've had it for a couple months, maybe you've had it for years—that thing that you've been wanting to try, that thing that you've been wanting to do, we're going to come together, and we are going to get it going together. So, that's what's up with me.
Alejo López: It's very good for this.
Natalie Miller: For me—I don't know about you—for me, I don't look at the astrology and think, what would be good? I have the idea, and then I look at the astrology, and I say, “Oh, that's perfect.” [laughs]
Alejo López: Good. It means you are in tune with the sky. I mean, it's really good for this lunation. I think it's a perfect thing to start the Crucible. Yeah, I think it's fantastic.
Natalie Miller: Yes, it's so good. All right. Well, you can find all of Alejo's offerings and also mine in the show notes to this show. Alejo, thank you so much for being here. It was awesome to talk to you. I think you'll be back, so we'll just say, we'll just say, “Talk to you later,” cause I'll see you again.
Alejo López: Yes, please. Thank you so much.
Natalie Miller: Okay, thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Mind Witchery. To catch all the magic I'm offering, please subscribe to the show, or if you want a little bit of weekly witchiness in your inbox, sign up for my Sunday letter at MindWitchery.com. If today's episode made you think of a friend or loved one, your sister, your neighbor, please tell them about it. We need more magic-makers in this troubled world. Like all good things, this podcast is co-created by stellar people. Our music is by fabulous DJ, artist, and producer, Shammie D. Our gorgeous art is by the sorcerers at New Moon Creative. Mind Witchery is produced in conjunction with Particulate Media, K. O. Myers, Executive Producer, and I am Natalie Miller. Til next time.
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